Should the fans take the blame?

[GodalmingYellow]

No fans should not take the blame.

Fans contribute by far and away the largest share of funds to their club and as such are entitled to their opinions.

Whilst I tend to agree with the general point being made here, when you have a sizeable proportion spouting ill-informed guff, I feel far less comfortable in absolving fans of all blame. For far too long there has been a very dark and negative atmosphere hanging over the stands on a matchday and it is no surprise when that filters through to the players, management, and board.

And we're getting it already with the anti-Waddock stuff. On Facebook tonight: "With Waddock, unless Lenagan is planning on getting Bale, Ronaldo and Messi....next season a mid table finish is being hopeful". So, before he's even had any chance to mould the squad as he wishes, he's being written off.

The minority who shout loudest often appear to represent more than they do. It's a handful of idiots, compared to the masses.

[Myles Francis]

It's more than just a handful though. A minority, granted; but a sizeable and vocal one. And the negative effect on the club as a whole shouldn't be underestimated.

[Kernow Yellow]

He set out not to lose that match precisely because we'd lost our previous two home games, conceding five goals in the process. He wanted the team to prove they could be solid again, that we hadn't become brittle.

No, he set out not to lose that match because that was the approach he took to virtually every home match since the 0-4 defeat to Rotherham. To be blunt, he was too scared of failing to actually go out and succeed. A trait which is now manifested in too many of the players.

Not sure why you're making out you're contradicting me here - I don't think our two statements are mutually exclusive at all. In fact I think we're saying pretty much the same thing albeit in different ways.

[STEVE F]

STUPID FOR ANYONE TO CONSIDER FANS TO BLAME .
BLAME LIES WITH PLAYERS WHO HAVE PROVED YET AGAIN THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOGH FOR A TOP THREE FINISH OR A PLAYOFF PLACE ALSO TIME FOR MAJOR CLEAROUT OF COACHING AND BACKROOM STAFF ALONG WITH OVER RATED PLAYERS A NEW MANAGER WITH FRESH COACHING AND SCOUTING STAFF HAS BEEN NEEDED EVEN BEFORE WILDER LEFT . I WILL BE INTERESTED IN WHO GW WANTS TO BRING FOR NEXT SEASON . HOPE CONSTABLE , POTTER AND WRIGHT SMALLY ARE NOT AT OUFC NEXT SEASON

[Myles Francis]

He set out not to lose that match precisely because we'd lost our previous two home games, conceding five goals in the process. He wanted the team to prove they could be solid again, that we hadn't become brittle.

No, he set out not to lose that match because that was the approach he took to virtually every home match since the 0-4 defeat to Rotherham. To be blunt, he was too scared of failing to actually go out and succeed. A trait which is now manifested in too many of the players.

Not sure why you're making out you're contradicting me here - I don't think our two statements are mutually exclusive at all. In fact I think we're saying pretty much the same thing albeit in different ways.

With regards to the Pompey match, yes we are saying much the same thing. However, I read your post as suggesting that Wilder took an overly-cautious approach to the Pompey game owing to the two previous defeats, i.e. this was different to his usual approach. My view is that the overly-cautious approach to home games was Wilder's default position post-Rotherham.

[Old Abingdonian]

At the risk of being a little sociological, football is changing, albeit slowly. We are moving from a loyalty based on locality and identification ('I'm an Oxford fan because I was born in Abingdon, went to see them aged 10, and that's that..') to a more consumer model ('I go to games because I enjoy the experience..'). The win, the enjoyable style of football, the pint have long been factors, but they are becoming the dominant factors. All clubs outside the Premiership are having to respond to this, and it makes the piping of 'top class football' into people's homes all the more frustrating.

A separate concern is the rhetoric of some of the noisy minority (almost entirely on the other side). Everyone has the right to criticise players on a forum - I would prefer them to be objective and use the term 'donkey' rather than cover the page is asterisks, but it's fair comment. It's even OK to say that you don't want to go, because you don't like the football / beer / team selection, although I'm not sure that I need to know this. What worries me is the passionate hatred, a kind of loathing, expressed by some fans. Is this a desire to be contradicted ('It''ll be alright, son'), or is it a buzz at denigrating something you and others once valued? Either way, I do worry that such feelings spread, and the idiots support each other - it becomes legitimate to say that you hate the club and won't return until we cruising to the top of the league. Basically, supporters should support, not watch.

CW's media interviews suggest that he was sensitive to abuse and criticism - he should probably have had a tougher skin, but I think there is a line between criticism and personal abuse which most people understand.

As for this season's cock-up, I agree with a number of posters - the mistake was the one-year contract last summer. Seemed a good idea, for CW to work his notice, but I infer that IL's first priority was not to offer CW another contract if we didn't go up. This wasn't bright, because it led to the indecision and insecurities we have all identified. It wasn't going to work unless the season was a failure (sack Wilder) or a runaway success, so that he could be offered a new contract in good time.

[Snake]

At the risk of being a little sociological, football is changing, albeit slowly. We are moving from a loyalty based on locality and identification ('I'm an Oxford fan because I was born in Abingdon, went to see them aged 10, and that's that..') to a more consumer model ('I go to games because I enjoy the experience..'). The win, the enjoyable style of football, the pint have long been factors, but they are becoming the dominant factors. All clubs outside the Premiership are having to respond to this, and it makes the piping of 'top class football' into people's homes all the more frustrating.

Indeed, and well put. For too long ‘My Football Club’ has been taken as a given, and if you don’t like it you either lump it or turn up (because you’ve always done) and moan. If the club squeezes every penny out of the captive element of its fan base (i.e. tickets, inside catering, merchandise) and delivers very little in return people still go along with it due in the main to being born into it – the one club mentality. This is highlighted perfectly in the thread started earlier entitled “Best position for a decade”. Wow, is 8th in Division IV really acceptable? No, but there is always next season people will say...

Trouble is, next season at Minchery Farm there will be the same stadium, same stadium owner, same club owner, same ownership stalemate, same churn of players, same thousands of empty seats, and no stand to block the view of the Firoka Goldmine across the car park. The only difference the new season will bring is a different manager and most probably a smaller playing budget, while arguably there will be greater competition for the top three places due to revivals at more well attended clubs like Pompey, Luton and Plymouth. Meanwhile the debts grow and the wherewithal to reduce them diminishes while the spark of some proper investment by the current owners remains absent or is given as vague promises of future plans proclaimed at six monthly intervals. How much longer will WPL be given to get things right before the penny drops? 5 years? 10 years? Never?

[Matt D]

Meanwhile the debts grow and the wherewithal to reduce them diminishes while the spark of some proper investment by the current owners remains absent or is given as vague promises of future plans proclaimed at six monthly intervals.

what would you regard as 'proper' investment snake?

are you talking about the amount, where investment is directed, or both?

[Snake]

Meanwhile the debts grow and the wherewithal to reduce them diminishes while the spark of some proper investment by the current owners remains absent or is given as vague promises of future plans proclaimed at six monthly intervals.

What would you regard as 'proper' investment, Snake?

Are you talking about the amount, where investment is directed, or both?

By proper I don’t mean dribs and drabs, corner cutting, reducing the budget and the annual bullshit about buying the stadium. A good start may be buying a large ‘For Sale’ sign to put on Grenoble Road.

[SmileyMan]

It's a good point - my local club is literally 100 yards down the road. I could start going to their games, learn the players names, sponsor the odd game or two, probably end up as a director. Luckily for Mrs Smiley I've failed to do this because Oxford United is my club, since my dad took me to the Manor as a boy of six. I haven't lived in Oxford since four years after that first game, and yet I know that I'll always be a Yellow, 'til I die.

I just couldn't bring myself to get emotionally invested in another club. Maybe that's the difference between the 'lifelong supporter' and the 'quality football consumer' - I watch Oxford whenever serendipity places my work and their games in close proximity, and boy have I seen some shocking game, but I don't go for the quality of the football - it's because it reminds me of my dad and reminds me of where I'm from.

It probably explains why I'm so sanguine about results and performance maybe. The club is bigger than the players, the managers, the owners, a hundred internet trolls and ten thousand fans, and me as well.

[YF Dan]

So what is the solution?

How do we get out of this mess?

What should Ian Lenegan do, or more accurately, what can he do?

We're losing money, for lots of reasons, so we have to tighten our belt.

For the past four seasons, we've spent ample money on players. Ample. Yet we're still in the same division, with fewer fans, and now the money it seems has gone. Yes, we blew a really great chance this season, but ditto the previous two seasons as well.

So, what now?

If Lenegan ever buys the stadium, unlikely, he will surely buy it for himself, not out of charity to the club. So presumably, we will end up paying rent to him anyway? And given the stadium will cost £12m-ish, IL will need to see some return, so our rent might even be more than we are paying now.

Unless the Council, the University, BMW, Richard Branson or anyone with a spare xx million feel like buying the club an expensive gift, I can't see how we get out of this mess. And to be honest, we'd probably need Firoz to lob in a free multiplex into the deal to make any money anyway, which I fear may not happen.

So in the meantime, all we can do is hope, and pray, that over the summer we manage to build a team of previously hidden gems. Other teams do it so it's not impossible. Did anyone pick Rochdale pre-season as a threat?

I live in hope, no expectation.

[GodalmingYellow]

At the risk of being a little sociological, football is changing, albeit slowly. We are moving from a loyalty based on locality and identification ('I'm an Oxford fan because I was born in Abingdon, went to see them aged 10, and that's that..') to a more consumer model ('I go to games because I enjoy the experience..'). The win, the enjoyable style of football, the pint have long been factors, but they are becoming the dominant factors. All clubs outside the Premiership are having to respond to this, and it makes the piping of 'top class football' into people's homes all the more frustrating.

A separate concern is the rhetoric of some of the noisy minority (almost entirely on the other side). Everyone has the right to criticise players on a forum - I would prefer them to be objective and use the term 'donkey' rather than cover the page is asterisks, but it's fair comment. It's even OK to say that you don't want to go, because you don't like the football / beer / team selection, although I'm not sure that I need to know this. What worries me is the passionate hatred, a kind of loathing, expressed by some fans. Is this a desire to be contradicted ('It''ll be alright, son'), or is it a buzz at denigrating something you and others once valued? Either way, I do worry that such feelings spread, and the idiots support each other - it becomes legitimate to say that you hate the club and won't return until we cruising to the top of the league. Basically, supporters should support, not watch.

CW's media interviews suggest that he was sensitive to abuse and criticism - he should probably have had a tougher skin, but I think there is a line between criticism and personal abuse which most people understand.

As for this season's cock-up, I agree with a number of posters - the mistake was the one-year contract last summer. Seemed a good idea, for CW to work his notice, but I infer that IL's first priority was not to offer CW another contract if we didn't go up. This wasn't bright, because it led to the indecision and insecurities we have all identified. It wasn't going to work unless the season was a failure (sack Wilder) or a runaway success, so that he could be offered a new contract in good time.

The rhetoric in a certain element of fans rests either at hatred or love, with very little in between. Ever was it so with football clubs. It isn't an issue to be concerned with. What is concerning is the effect of what you describe as the consumer fan, which is really the same model as the casual fan. They are becoming harder to attract and that is without doubt, and whilst we continue to languish in div 4, it will only get harder,

[Kernow Yellow]

For the past four seasons, we've spent ample money on players. Ample. Yet we're still in the same division, with fewer fans, and now the money it seems has gone. Yes, we blew a really great chance this season, but ditto the previous two seasons as well.

So, what now?

Hang on a minute, Dan. I thought it was generally accepted that we finished about par for our budget last season? That's not to say I think we should have thrown more money at the situation. But you seem to be implying we underperformed badly.

Also, it's a bit of a myth that we've blown great positions every season. People have been trotting that argument out when shrugging off our capitulation this year, as if it would have been an inevitability under CW too. We finished terribly two years ago, of course, but last season we'd never been higher than our final position of 9th. In fact we finished pretty strongly after a disastrous start to the campaign.

Anyway, what now indeed? If we don't make big changes, we face starting a new season with a group of players who seemingly can't or won't play for Gary Waddock. Which is a pretty horrifying prospect. And if we do make big changes, we're trusting a man who is so far (on paper) our worst ever manager to completely rebuild the team and risk more of our (and Lenagan's) money. A prospect which many fans, incredibly, seem to be pretty happy about. I'm apprehensive, to say the least.

[Mooro]

As an aside, should Jake Wright choose to leave the club this summer, it will be ENTIRELY due to the fans, or at least that section that bought the 'he's already agreed to follow Wilder to Noton' guff and targeted him with vile abuse and accusations of 'throwing games' from there onwards.

[Radley Rambler]

As an aside, should Jake Wright choose to leave the club this summer, it will be ENTIRELY due to the fans, or at least that section that bought the 'he's already agreed to follow Wilder to Noton' guff and targeted him with vile abuse and accusations of 'throwing games' from there onwards.

You can't make such a sweeping statement as above. If Jake Wright chooses to leave the club it could be due to a number of factors:

- Another club could offer more money
- Another club could offer a longer contract term
- Another club could be in a higher division/have more potential
- Another club could be closer to JW's wider family
- Another club could be in an area where housing etc. is cheaper
- Another club may have a familiar manager who he likes working with

There are a whole raft of reasons why he may move, fans attitude being only one and I suspect a minor one.