Does IL have a clue?

[JoeyBeauchamp]

And as soon as the going got tough at the higher level, he lost his bottle.

Not actually sure quite what this means. On the field, he was doing pretty ok - not brilliantly, but well enough to have a reasonable chance of promotion. At the time he left he'd just come out of a dodgy spell over Christmas with a couple of wins. If you mean off the field, yes it would be "tough" to have no job security at all. I'd "lose my bottle" if my job did that to me if I was doing ok at it.

Exactly - lost his bottle, walked out on us? No, he tested out IL's thinking by talking to Portsmouth and then left at the next decent opportunity for him and his family. The fact is CW will probably end up the only one winning out of this situation - Northampton stay up, we don't go up, and he has the last laugh on the last game of the season.

[Dr Bob]

Blimey - a bit of catching up to do. Apparently this is a poxy league so, I guess since we cannot get out of it, we must be a poxy team. But, according to some of you, this apparently is because we do not have an owner with pockets deep enough to buy our way to promotions. As a result of which IL does not have a clue - QED. What rubbish. What boat exactly has Oxford missed? Not being one of the small minority of clubs to get bought by a super-rich owner? That tells us nothing meaningful at all. Besides - even those who do manage to buy a place at the top table do not always see things as happily ever after (cf Cardiff City and Hull City), let alone those for whom that was not a long-term strategy (cf (Leeds, Portsmouth, Wolves, etc, etc, etc). Snake - just which clubs similar to us have had sustained success the sugar-daddy route? You link this point to the title of the thread - so I say again - how can it be that IL does not have a clue, by dint of the fact that he does not have bottomless pockets, is not prepared to sacrifice financial stability, and has supported the youth and development set-ups and the fitness side? What exactly does all of this indicate IL does not have a clue about?

Interesting point about us getting gates as big as many clubs in higher divisions - which overlooks the point that we have consistently been in a lower division than those other teams and are therefore not as good a team as those others (nor as good as you seem to believe in your fantastical dreams). Sorry Ty, but where a team plays is based on the effectiveness of the footie, not the number of people who turn up to watch (and whilst the former may link causally to the latter, it does not work the other way around to any great degree).

Oh and if you have never read anything as depressing as my comparisons with other clubs, you obviously did not bother reading you own post that calls this a poxy league - which means, as I have said, that our inability to get out of it must make us a poxy team. I guess we are not so different to those other clubs after all (given that, like most of them, the last time we exited this poxy league was downwards, to join another poxy league).

If that is depressing it is because you have an unbelievably unrealistic perception about United. From about the time of Herd onwards, life as an Oxford supporter has been shaped by hopeless owners who failed to deliver, well, anything other than a downwards trajectory, a succession of managers and dismal financial performance.

Joey - suggesting that YF Dan is patronising people who do not disagree with him rather misses an obvious point - the attributes he lists have all manifested themselves here on this forum time after time. If you think pointing out these arguments is patronising, then what does that say about the people who made those points in the first place?

Let's be clear about one thing - I am frustrated as anybody about the diminishing chances of promotion this year. But I am not going to let that distort my vision of the reality of the situation we find ourselves in, nor of the different ways we might get out of it.

[neilw]

How refreshing to have a proper debate on here. Long overdue.

[SmileyMan]

How refreshing to have a proper debate on here. Long overdue.

You smell!

[neilw]

Fair point, well made

[Brahma Bull]

Dan, it's not about tapping up managers or offering them jobs, it's about having a shortlist in mind (knowing that your manager is quite likely to leave), and acting fast on that shortlist when the position does become available.

Obviously it's better that we get the right person, but surely it's possible to do that more quickly than we currently are. Otherwise we might well end up throwing away a decent chance of promotion, something that really doesn't come along very often, good manager or no.

Having been accused of being 'too close' (whether that's me or the OxVox committee I don't know - BTW I have only had one meeting with IL in 18 months as I couldn't make the one late last year I do think Lenagan is getting wrongly tainted over this.

I would be flabbergasted if the Board of OUFC haven't had an eye and therefore a shortlist in mind on the replacement for Mr Wilder, probably for some significant time. As I mentioned earlier, Wilder had been looking around for 18 months for pastures new. It's no secret.

When you try and identify the best candidates, most of them would be in work. I think it's fair to say that you are normally out of work for a reason and therefore serial sacked managers probably don't interest him. So the process was always going to be a mid to long term one unless he went throwing a bag load of cash about on getting a quick replacement.

I believe the process has taken too long and it is now having an impact on our season. I think defeat tomorrow will see hands forced. For all I know, the candidate has been identified (probably in work) but for contractual reasons (notice period or compensation for example) everyone were prepared to wait. Maybe decisions needs to be made now to accelerate the process forward.

Lenagan is clearly a methodical businessman and will take his time over the important decisions. He wants the right man and I suspect he is prepared to risk short-term gain in order to get the man of his choice - whether that's acceptable to supporters is open to debate.

[SmileyMan]

As I understand it we did have a shortlist, and the people on it were invited to apply through the open recruitment process (presumably with guarantees of reaching the interview stage)

We're going to lose tomorrow, while a concerned face looks on from the director's box. Said face will be unveiled as the boss on Monday, and we'll go on an unprecedented sequence of wins while our rivals all falter, culminating in a last-day thriller which sees us simultaneously snatch the third automatic spot and consign Wilder to the Conference.

Also, tomorrow's lottery numbers are 12, 18, 32, 40, 41 and 45

[GodalmingYellow]

And as soon as the going got tough at the higher level, he lost his bottle.

Not actually sure quite what this means. On the field, he was doing pretty ok - not brilliantly, but well enough to have a reasonable chance of promotion. At the time he left he'd just come out of a dodgy spell over Christmas with a couple of wins. If you mean off the field, yes it would be "tough" to have no job security at all. I'd "lose my bottle" if my job did that to me if I was doing ok at it.

It doesn't mean the slightly distorted meaning you've used!

It means he no longer felt confident in his ability, to get the automatic promotion from his squad, that would have given him the security he desired. And he walked.

[GodalmingYellow]

As I understand it we did have a shortlist, and the people on it were invited to apply through the open recruitment process (presumably with guarantees of reaching the interview stage)

We're going to lose tomorrow, while a concerned face looks on from the director's box. Said face will be unveiled as the boss on Monday, and we'll go on an unprecedented sequence of wins while our rivals all falter, culminating in a last-day thriller which sees us simultaneously snatch the third automatic spot and consign Wilder to the Conference.

Also, tomorrow's lottery numbers are 12, 18, 32, 40, 41 and 45

You ruined it with the last line. I believed you all the way until then!!

[Jimski]

And as soon as the going got tough at the higher level, he lost his bottle.

Not actually sure quite what this means. On the field, he was doing pretty ok - not brilliantly, but well enough to have a reasonable chance of promotion. At the time he left he'd just come out of a dodgy spell over Christmas with a couple of wins. If you mean off the field, yes it would be "tough" to have no job security at all. I'd "lose my bottle" if my job did that to me if I was doing ok at it.

It doesn't mean the slightly distorted meaning you've used!

It means he no longer felt confident in his ability, to get the automatic promotion from his squad, that would have given him the security he desired. And he walked.

Would you take such a risk in a similar situation? It was always at best 60/40 or so that we'd go up. Football is a game with a lot of luck involved, and the manager merely has an influence (albeit a fairly large one) on results. If there were a 40% chance I'd be out of a job in the summer, I too would walk into an equivalent job with 3 years guaranteed, I can tell you. He has mouths to feed. It was the sensible decision, regardless of whether he felt "confident" or not.

[Snake]

How refreshing to have a proper debate on here. Long overdue.

The last game of the season is shaping up to possibly be no ordinary fixture the way things stand for both or either club. The curse of the returning player is one thing, but this is another situation entirely.

Over on the other side there is a thread entitled ‘Three words sum it up’ but a lot of posters haven’t quite got the hang of it (or can count to 3)

http://www.yellowsforum.co.uk/thread/17061/words-sum

[SmileyMan]

You ruined it with the last line. I believed you all the way until then!!

You got off lightly - I've got to go and spend 2 quid on a ticket now to avoid an almighty slap in the face from karma

[Jimski]

The thing that should be noted is that this isn't me being down on Ian Lenagan for the sake of it. I am genuinely worried about a previously hopeful season. I'd be the first to congratulate him if he takes his time, appoints someone in the next few weeks, and they end up as a great long-term option. It's just hard to take this slippage right now.

[BigCrompy]

The thing that should be noted is that this isn't me being down on Ian Lenagan for the sake of it. I am genuinely worried about a previously hopeful season. I'd be the first to congratulate him if he takes his time, appoints someone in the next few weeks, and they end up as a great long-term option. It's just hard to take this slippage right now.

Completely agree.

I for one am not opposed to a interim, caretaker manager per se….

…it's just it's looking more and more like the wrong caretaker manager was appointed.

And however well-intentioned the process, I cannot help but think we have failed to capitalise on a golden opportunity to achieve promotion this year.

And I worry that next season, with a rejuvenated Luton (and, just to spite us, Northampton bloody Town), life won't be so easy. There are no guarantees that even a fine appointment next season will afford us the chance that we are currently blowing.

[Snake]

Chris Wilder is gone, away, dead, nailed to the technical area/perch at the Kassam Stadium and no longer Oxford United property any more so can we just leave this now? Monty Python and the dead parrot parody springs to mind (apart from the legal compensation which is really just small change for WPL to sort out) but the last game of the season looms. I hope it doesn’t comes to a crunch game for both teams but if it does then I doubt if Northampton Town will offer Oxford United fans 5,000 seats to visiting supporters like we did to Leyton Orient.