Building houses on the car park?

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Hog
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Building houses on the car park?

Post by Hog » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:12 am

I don't remember seeing this before ...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/109156 ... um/?ref=mr

Is this the car park over the little bridge by the bingo hall?

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:05 pm

I just saw that too. Yes, it's the car park down past the club shop. Which is usually fairly busy on a matchday, though a complete nightmare to get out of afterwards (so I understand).

Just what we need though - a further reduction in available car parking at the stadium. Is this land owned by the council or FK? The article seems to imply the former.

Snake
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Snake » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:11 pm

I could drag up a few old threads where I said this would happen based on the Leyton Orient model. No mention yet from the council or the media about a small shopping centre yet, but that will come with this proposal. Firoka have sat on this goldmine for so long waiting for WPL to buy and have clearly got bored waiting so are now going to cash in.

Paul Cooper
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Paul Cooper » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:11 pm

I can't see any planning permission being agreed unless there is adequate alternative parking?

Snake would have a more informed view, but it would seem a bit daft to allow the parking to become even more difficult for big games (which if we were to go up would happen more regularly)

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:49 pm

Paul Cooper wrote:I can't see any planning permission being agreed unless there is adequate alternative parking?
It'll get planning permission on the basis that no car parking spaces will magically mean no-one will have cars anymore. Complete bullshit, of course, but transport planning officers in local authorities don't live in the real world.

This development will be another reason why we will never regularly achieve crowds of 10,000+ - unless you're a die-hard, who's going to voluntarily put themself through a logistical mission every fortnight to watch a game of football? Think about it - you either have to arrive super-early to get a sought-for parking space in the main car park or on the surrounding streets (and face the congestion afterwards to get out), or you have to get there by public transport (which, unless you're coming from the city centre, is a faff). Those problems exist now, but will be worsened when the overflow car park gets built on and will be aggravated by any crowd much over 8,000.

OUFC4eva
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by OUFC4eva » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:06 pm

There are literally 000's of spaces on the Oxford Science Park
we could use if Magdalen College (the site owners- I think)
agree to help. They have been approached in the past.

The article mentions a multi storey car park as part of the development.

As snake suggests - this over flow car parking land looks to be a
Gold mine. I wonder what politics are involved in all this
and whether the scheme has got a chance of success.

Flats in the corners of the stadium is a horrible thought though.

Roo
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Roo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:11 pm


slappy
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by slappy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:44 pm

The overflow car park has been identified as potential housing, but that is partly because the council has to identify all spare developable land in the city, to prove impartiality.

Hog
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Hog » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:40 pm

Perhaps the terms of the planning permission could require. the developer to build the fourth stand ...

Snake
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Snake » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:10 pm

Many years ago, Nick Merry and a person introduced as the “Project Manager” (a man by the name of Mr. Jim Smith who apart from knowing his football had obviously spent at least an hour brushing up on planning regulations) held a series of meetings on this very topic with the OCC planning department. In fact some were with Mr Crofton-Briggs who is still in charge of it. If you really want to know what is going on rather than getting drip fed by OCC staff (and ex-staff) leaking stuff (or material fed to OxVox by WPL) then put in some formal FOI requests to OCC for all recorded documents on the matter and what the outcome was, and what they hold regarding the current situation. I’d do so myself but know what a nightmare it is to deal with them on my desk, especially Oxford United issues (like the long running Land Deal dispute with the Oxford Times) and would never get invited again to any more staff socials if I did. And it’s easy - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/

And while you’re at it, then lobby Andrew Smith MP to try to get on street parking on the other side of Grenoble Road if and when thousands of houses get built there ‘cos the last time I spoke to him he was dead against it. It’s one thing to impose matchday parking restrictions outside the existing houses in BBL when United moved to Minchery Farm as part of the deal, another entirely to inflate the house prices if/when they get built by guaranteeing future residents that They won’t have nasty football cars in their street 25 times a year. And lots of people who live in David Cameron's political patch next door to Andrew like their cars and support the biggest professional sporting organisation in Oxfordshire.

Sixteen years of footballing hurt is enough and Oxford should have more than just 'Dreaming Spires' to be proud of as these days a city needs to be famous for more than just old buildings and the past centuries if you want to be on the front page of Google, so it's a shame that to date Oxford City Council don't see that point. There is not a Prem team within a 90 minute commute from the Kassam Stadium and the number of fans we took to Wembley for a non-League game demonstrates the future fan base potential if the community model backed by public finance and commitment is adopted.

The local politicians are afraid of Us. End of.

p.s. and this lot can swim away - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-25559959

YF Dan
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by YF Dan » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:43 am

I have no problem at all with the concept of filling in the corners with flats, or whatever. T'is just a shame we don't own the land ourselves and won't benefit from it financially.

I've always thought this would be a good way of getting the ground to pay for itself. Shame Kassam has got there first.

I would hope (but not expect), that it will be decreed that if you built the flats, you must build a fourth stand. Hopefully, this will happen once the FL has agreement on safe standing terraces. Wouldn't it be nice to have a four-sided ground, with filled in corners, and a nice big terrace?

----

If the fourth stand is built, presumably we'll lose even more parking spaces?

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by GodalmingYellow » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:18 pm

Snake will hopefully correct me where necessary, but wasn't the planning permission for the KasStad granted on the basis of provision of 2,000 car parking spaces?

If that is the case, ripping up the overflow car park, and/or some of the west side car park, would breach the planning for the KasStad.

I suspect these issues are the result of Kassam trying to force the hand of WPL as Snake says. Kassam is not a man to trifle with and he will no doubt have plans b,c,d,e and f ready and waiting if this route should fail.

The stadium was designed to achieve capacity of 25,000, using the corners, a west stand and an additional tier on the East Stand. Any planning of houses which restricts that capacity, reduces the value of the stadium to the football club in the admittedly unlikely event of reaching the upper echelons of The Football League.

Use of the overflow car park to build houses to fund the stadium purchase and 4th stand has always been the most (only) financially sensible route, but without additional alternative parking and public transport, any benefits to the football club would be restricted.

Snake
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Snake » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:12 pm

GodalmingYellow wrote:Snake will hopefully correct me where necessary, but wasn't the planning permission for the KasStad granted on the basis of provision of 2,000 car parking spaces?

If that is the case, ripping up the overflow car park, and/or some of the west side car park, would breach the planning for the KasStad.

I suspect these issues are the result of Kassam trying to force the hand of WPL as Snake says. Kassam is not a man to trifle with and he will no doubt have plans b,c,d,e and f ready and waiting if this route should fail.

The stadium was designed to achieve capacity of 25,000, using the corners, a west stand and an additional tier on the East Stand. Any planning of houses which restricts that capacity, reduces the value of the stadium to the football club in the admittedly unlikely event of reaching the upper echelons of The Football League.

Use of the overflow car park to build houses to fund the stadium purchase and 4th stand has always been the most (only) financially sensible route, but without additional alternative parking and public transport, any benefits to the football club would be restricted.
True (http://public.oxford.gov.uk/online-appl ... 9500832NFY ) but it also says a 15,000 seat stadium. And the Multiplex only ever got permission for 9 screens but it has 12. The council are desperate to build houses (and a few shops for those houses) so any variation would not be a problem if put before a committee!

slappy
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by slappy » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:48 pm

Who owns the overflow car park? Is it a Kassam company, or the council?

If the four corners were filled in with flats like Orient, would that mean the stadium 'value' goes down, as the potential development profit has then been realised by Kassam?

Hog
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Re: Building houses on the car park?

Post by Hog » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:22 pm

How would the residents access the site, from Grenoble Road or through the (low) railway arch from Littlemore or even through the school grounds from Blackbird Leys?

How much would the fourth stand cost? £1m, £2m? If the latter it would add an £8k premium to the price of each house. Or am I being too simplistic?

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