So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

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JoeyBeauchamp
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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by JoeyBeauchamp » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:20 pm

I wouldn't blame him for going, but I hope he doesn't. If he doesn't achieve his (and the club's) stated aim of promotion then he will almost certainly go, or be pushed, but I would imagine he would want to stay and finish the job this season. No-one seems to be running away with the league - there has never been a better chance. If he does go we are looking at a similar situation as to when Atkins went; look what happened there.

Any manager who can cope with the injury crisis we have and still maintain an unbeaten away record and be top of the league is alright by me.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by BigCrompy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:28 am

JoeyBeauchamp wrote:I wouldn't blame him for going, but I hope he doesn't. If he doesn't achieve his (and the club's) stated aim of promotion then he will almost certainly go, or be pushed, but I would imagine he would want to stay and finish the job this season. No-one seems to be running away with the league - there has never been a better chance. If he does go we are looking at a similar situation as to when Atkins went; look what happened there.

Any manager who can cope with the injury crisis we have and still maintain an unbeaten away record and be top of the league is alright by me.
Hear, hear.

Love him or loathe him, we are where we are in spite of a paper thin squad and with a lot to (hopefully) come back in. That has to say a lot for the management and coaching team, and it is very hard to believe that Wilder's loss will be anything other than a significant interruption and one that could derail our season, a la Atkins. I for one don't believe the grasser is always greener.

As an interesting aside, having fallen out with him once, what would become of Tom Craddock if Wilder DID make the move?

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by Mooro » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:04 am

BigCrompy wrote: As an interesting aside, having fallen out with him once, what would become of Tom Craddock if Wilder DID make the move?
Perhaps he'd be part of the compensation package?

I fail to understand how anyone can suggest that losing Wilder at this stage would be a good thing for OUFC....but then again, I fail to understand a lot of things!

recordmeister
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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by recordmeister » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:17 am

JoeyBeauchamp wrote:I wouldn't blame him for going...
Let's be very clear here- CW doesn't have a choice about it, as he is under contract until the end of the season. He can't just "go".

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by BigCrompy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:26 am

recordmeister wrote:
JoeyBeauchamp wrote:I wouldn't blame him for going...
Let's be very clear here- CW doesn't have a choice about it, as he is under contract until the end of the season. He can't just "go".
Acknowledged - but, living in the real world, if Wilder indicated that he wanted to go, we would ultimately only receive a pittance for his service. However, a pittance that Pompey would be struggling to pay I would expect.

I imagine Lenegan is absolutely within his legal right to deny Pompey the opportunity to speak with Wilder, but I would also expect Wilder to hold most of the aces if he were simply to perceive that a job at Pompey was preferable for his career and demand the right to speak with them.

Someone more legally astute than I (i.e. anyone) may be better placed to comment, however.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:06 am

- - - - - - - - - - - - HEALTH WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POINT HAS NO BEARING ON MY OPINION REGARDING THE WILDER SITUATION - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sorry, but can we please stop with the Atkins revisionism? The following two quotes are just nonsense, frankly:
BigCrompy wrote:...it is very hard to believe that Wilder's loss will be anything other than a significant interruption and one that could derail our season, a la Atkins.
JoeyBeauchamp wrote:If [Wilder] does go we are looking at a similar situation as to when Atkins went; look what happened there.
To repeat a point I made a few weeks back on here, by the time Atkins was sacked, we were a busted flush and were no longer genuine title contenders. Teams had worked out how to beat us and our momentum was solidly downwards. Look at the run of results between the game with Hull City which precipitated the start of the decline up until Atkins' exit:

Kidderminster Harriers (home): won 2-1
Leyton Orient (away): lost 1-0
Scunthorpe United (home): won 3-2
Yeovil Town (away): lost 1-0
Bury (home): drew 1-1
Bristol Rovers (away): drew 0-0
York City (home): drew 0-0
Huddersfield Town (home): lost 0-1
Calisle United (away): lost 2-0

That was mid-table form at best (and that's being very charitable indeed); we had slipped outside of the automatic places and most of the sides around us had games in hand. We had also just lost to the bottom side in the league, and opponents were consistently showing that they had sussed our only way of playing.

The mistake was not sacking Atkins, it was replacing him with someone as inept as Graham Rix.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - END OF HEALTH WARNING - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


As for Wilder, I'd firmly be of the view that we should fight to keep him and/or refuse Portsmouth permission to speak to him. Whatever the concerns about our home form, we are currently very definitely one of the promotion favourites, and key players (Kitson, Constable, Rose, Wright, Raynes) are all hitting form and playing well.

I was a big supporter of Lengan's idea of a development squad to supplement the first team and prevent us bringing in short-term ineffective loanees. Arguably, the development squad is still a season or two off being as good as it might be, so there is a case to allow Wilder to bring in one or two players (ideally permanently rather than as loan signings) to strengthen in January. It doesn't sound as though that is the plan currently - but maybe the Portsmouth situation will give Wilder a bit of leverage. That might be a Good Thing, particularly if we bring in some really experienced heads (like when Hargreaves came back during the promotion season from the CONference).

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by recordmeister » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:24 pm

I think the whole thing is a set up. A PR stunt designed to smoke out the fans who aren't happy with a manager that, as of midday today, has a team at the top of the league.

We can't be leading any other division than the one we play in. However, as has been mentioned on this forum before, if the 'return' from the fans for us being the league leaders is for only 5000 fans to turn up to home games, then something must be done.

I think IL will use this situation to throw the gauntlet down to fans, asking "What more do you want, than to be top of the league with player stability and a manager who wins more games than other managers in the league and the best goal difference to boot? If you'd rather risk that position by us bringing in another (more entertaining) manager, which means more of you will turn up on a Sat afternoon, then let me know. If not, then why are you not turning up to watch statistically the best team in the league?"

IL must be tearing his hair out at the attendances. He surely can't run a club off 5k home gates? We were getting bigger gates in the conf, ffs. He HAS to do something to rally the supporters back, and the excellent work he and Wilder have clearly done over the summer (evidenced by the fact we are top of the league and have cut off the reliance the manager had on loanees) to platform a potential championship winning side, hasn't worked.

He must wonder what he has to do, over-and-above delivering a winning team, to get the fans back. I believe he'll use this situation as research, throwing down a gauntlet to the fans to almost "back him or sack him", to try and regain the 'lost' couple ot thousand who aren't currently turning at home.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by BigCrompy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:12 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote: Sorry, but can we please stop with the Atkins revisionism? The following two quotes are just nonsense, frankly:
BigCrompy wrote:...it is very hard to believe that Wilder's loss will be anything other than a significant interruption and one that could derail our season, a la Atkins.
JoeyBeauchamp wrote:If [Wilder] does go we are looking at a similar situation as to when Atkins went; look what happened there.
The mistake was not sacking Atkins, it was replacing him with someone as inept as Graham Rix.
Ian Atkins won nearly 50 of 120 games, nearly 40%, after which we undeniably sunk without trace.

The manner of his sacking was regrettable.

His replacement, I concur, was nothing short of remiss and incompetent.

If you don't sack Atkins, you don't need a replacement - that's physics.

So it was patently an interruption to that season, whether we were on the slide or not, as would losing Wilder would be to this; and I think that's the point we were both making. There is VERY little guarantee we'd get better than Wilder to finish this season with. It's hardly nonsense, is it?

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:44 pm

To return to Hog's original question - about what is it that you are asking people to do something about? All we know is that a club has expressed an interest in our manager and that, it would appear, our Chairman has sent them packing. From the information we have in the public domain, it looks like Pompey are considering more than one person already in post (and of course CW would be the one to attract attention as we are top of the league).

I am more inclined to see this as, possibly, perhaps, changing the dynamic between CW and IL in their private conversations, but so far the tone of this thread seems to assume that Pompey will get to speak with CW, that he would be interested in the job and that he would want to leave Oxford. All possible, of course, but also all with big questions marks at this point in time.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by YF Dan » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:17 pm

I'd be very surprised if this hasn't been bubbling under for a while, and I'd bet contact made between Pompey and Wilder already...probably not more than "would you be interested in coming to talk to us about being our new manager?" and the answer being "If you are offering more money and a longer contract, then yes".

Otherwise Portsmouth wouldn't have gone public with their interest, because they sure as hell wouldn't have put their eggs in one basket without a certain assurance that they at least have a chance of getting their man.

I'd be surprised if Wilder is still under the same contract with us by the end of the week. My instinct is that he will have gone, although you can sure as hell bet that he - quite understandably - will use the Pompey interest to see if there's any scope for negotiating a longer/better contract here.

With us sitting top of the table, he'll know this is a great chance to negotiate a better paid job, either here or elsewhere. What he'll had to weigh up is whether he thinks we have a genuinely good chance of getting promotion, because that will strengthen his CV further, or whether he's better off going to Pompey who have nothing to lose at the moment. In many ways they are where we were when Wilder took over here...a team woefully under-achieving, a squad with some good players, and a club with good potential to get promotion if not this year, then certainly next.

He might be thinking... 'I could go there now, get a good run going and even if we don't make the play-offs, it won't be my fault'...whereas if he stays, and our wheels come-off again towards the end of the season, then he's blown another good position. I think with our squad creaking, and the division so tight, a better paid job with nothing to lose might be a temptation too far.

-----

Totally agree about Atkins. Utter tosh that we'd have gone up had he stayed. He blew the season previously, and was stuffing up massively when he got the push. One goal in six games before his elbow. Hadn't he approached Bristol Rovers too about a job there, wasn't that the official reason he was sacked? Silly man, if only he'd trusted Crosby and Bound to play in a back four, instead of a 5 central defender back line, and played Hackett and Powell as wingers, we probably would have gone up.

-----

Like when Atkins left, if Wilder does go the key is getting the right person in as a replacement. The good thing is, we a probably quite an attractive job at the moment. We have a good chairman, a good squad, a good place in the league, and potentially a great fan base. The funny thing is, a new manager would probably have positive impact on attendances, simply because it is the whiff of staleness and stagnation that is - fairly or unfairly - keeping people away at the moment.

I've mentioned elsewhere I a huge fan of Ian Holloway: I know he's probably been earning big bucks in previous jobs, but I don't think he needs or is motivated by money. He quit Palace and didn't take a pay-off when one was due. I think he looks at clubs with potential - which we are - and being a Bristol man, living around Oxford might work for him.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by joepoolman » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:57 pm

YF Dan wrote:I've mentioned elsewhere I a huge fan of Ian Holloway: I know he's probably been earning big bucks in previous jobs, but I don't think he needs or is motivated by money. He quit Palace and didn't take a pay-off when one was due. I think he looks at clubs with potential - which we are - and being a Bristol man, living around Oxford might work for him.
Why would Holloway go to OUFC when he could walk into a job at most Championship clubs if there was one going? For what it's worth I hope, and think Wilder will stay.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by OUFC4eva » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:04 pm

The horror of all horrors for me would be to lose Wilder and end
up with a Gary Waddock or a Martin Allen.

Also a no for me would be Sean O'Driscoll, Michael Appleton, Paul Simpson
and Paul Sturrock.

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by Mooro » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:06 pm

Going to echo what I've said on the other side.

Three outcomes if he stays:
If we go up, with another promotion (2 in 4 years?) he is in a great position to either renegotiate here OR attract interest from higher up the ladder.
If we makes the playoffs but don't go up, he may then look to move and there will still be decent opportunities out there for him at clubs that will be happy to take him (relegated League 1 sides, other League 2 challengers looking for a change).
If we finish out of the top 7, then he's out of here whether he likes it or not and will have to take what there is (probably still get another League 2 job)

If he takes the Pompey job, are they as ready to move forwards as they outwardly appear? Who'd have thought they'd have been so poor this season, and we don't really know what horrors are lying behind the scenes down there do we? Move there and don't get the improvement they'd expect, he could be out of there within a year, with a weakened CV to boot.

Murmurs from Pompey supporters reckon that Barker is already a shoo-in (has links with the chairman) and that the Wilder thing is merely a smokescreen to make it look as though he is working through a shortlist rather than just appointing his own man. If that is the case, then Wilder has to be careful of not showing too much interest as that would weaken his position here if it does not come off.
There is also a suggestion that the powers that be have decreed that Portsmouth cannot pay compensation to another club to appoint their manager, which i) asks whether IL would let Wilder go for nothing and ii) brings the focus back to managers who are not in work, especially those who have recently left clubs, such as errrrrr......Richie Barker!!!!

No, business as usual for me, with Wilder probably recognising this season is a real opportunity to boost his own standing in the game and also his stubborn streak wanting to prove a lot of people wrong (notably elements of the fanbase).

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Re: So Wilder 'fans', what should we do?

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:11 pm

Having been fairly 'meh' about Wilder's position over the previous two seasons, I would be absolutely gutted if he left now. Despite our poor home form we're top of the league with the best goal difference, fewest goals conceded, second most goals scored etc etc. Wilder's squad (and they pretty much all are his players) are showing real fight and togetherness, and I'd be amazed if the manager leaving brought about anything but a decline in on-field performances. We've finally put ourselves in with a real shout of challenging for promotion, and to have that jeopardised by CW being poached (with the blessing of a section of fans who want to cut off their nose to spite their face) would be sickening quite frankly.

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