Transfer window slams shut

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Kernow Yellow
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Transfer window slams shut

Post by Kernow Yellow »

So deadline day has passed without any movement in or out for Us.

Do I detect a slight lack of enthusiasm in Chris Wilder's words about the squad he's got?

Speaking before the window shut, manager Chris Wilder made it clear they would stick to the model, which meant the young talents will get opportunities.

“Of course they will – and that’s why we’re not bringing any players in,” he said.

“We talked about it at the start of the season that this is what we are going to do.

“We are going to get some decent old pros and have a decent mix of good characters, along with good young players still going forward like Alfie Potter and some really young players.

That’s the make-up of this squad and I will work with that and try to keep getting some results like we have done so far.”
neilw
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by neilw »

Those quotes are taken from his post match interview, in which he was a little prickly. It came across to me that whilst he was prepared to work with the squad mix as it was, he wasn't overly positive towards it. More like he had to accept it as opposed to actually agreeing with it.

In fairness, he must be totally pissed off with the current injury situation, yet again, especially with whom was / wasn't available on Saturday.

As regards the youth / development squad, Ty Marsh showed exactly why Wilder is loathe to just throw them in and expect them to deliver. Marsh is no where near a league 2 player yet. It's a massive step up.
Dr Bob
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Dr Bob »

Absolutely, Neil. It is called a Development Squad for a very good reason, and until or unless individual players develop, relying on them to fill out the first team squad is a bit risky.

Then again, as has already been said on another thread, how do players (such as COD) get first team experience without being played? Meanwhile, throughout his time with us, CW has always been reluctant to pick youth. He has also, on too many occasions, really rather screwed up loan signings, with too many poor players who then get picked, disrupt the team, then get let go again. I am therefore not surprised that IL has imposed the restrictions on CW that he has, especially also given the financial situation overall at the club.

I guess this is the season where we see just how good CW is at working under such constraints, and how effective the sports science/fitness and Development Squad set-ups really are.
OUFC4eva
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by OUFC4eva »

neilw wrote:Those quotes are taken from his post match interview, in which he was a little prickly. It came across to me that whilst he was prepared to work with the squad mix as it was, he wasn't overly positive towards it. More like he had to accept it as opposed to actually agreeing with it.

In fairness, he must be totally pissed off with the current injury situation, yet again, especially with whom was / wasn't available on Saturday.

As regards the youth / development squad, Ty Marsh showed exactly why Wilder is loathe to just throw them in and expect them to deliver. Marsh is no where near a league 2 player yet. It's a massive step up.
just seen the highlights on Yellow PLAYER and
that was some pass from Rosé where he played Marsh in near the end.

Tyrone's eyes no doubt lit up when he received the pass but he looked to be on his heels a bit
and Lillis smothered the half hit effort.
Werthers Original
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Werthers Original »

If I recall rightly, he miscontrolled it. Neither he nor Williams the week before looked like first-teamers to me, but I really hope I'm wrong.
slappy
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by slappy »

On Radio Oxford post-match, Wilder also said something along the lines of "last week we played Williams for half an hour, this week Marsh ... the younger players are getting opportunities ... I wasn't willing to put CO'D up against their right back as I felt he was too strong".

Like other people mentioned on his comments on the squad make-up, I thought Wilder would came across that he would rather have a squad of 22 senior pros than 17+5, but he did say "that's the way it is, so we will work with it" rather than trying to blame anyone.

[EDIT]
Just seen that the initial link to the Oxford Mail story transcribed the post-match interview.
Last edited by slappy on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
GodalmingYellow
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by GodalmingYellow »

But Rochdale's right back wasn't strong. He was just given far too much space by Hall being played out of position and drifting inwards, coupled with the weak full back of Newey (and Hunt for the cross that led to the equaliser). Rochdale manager spotted this and in the second half they perpetually exploited the weakness.

In my view playing O'Dowda would have restricted the space and prevented the their right back running amok, whilst at the same time giving us badly needed width down the left.

As regards Ty, I think people are being overly harsh. He will never become full match league 2 player unless he gets league 2 experience. I thought he played pretty well, apart from the glaring miss, which was no doubt a rabbit in the headlights moment.
Mooro
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Mooro »

neilw wrote:Those quotes are taken from his post match interview, in which he was a little prickly. It came across to me that whilst he was prepared to work with the squad mix as it was, he wasn't overly positive towards it. More like he had to accept it as opposed to actually agreeing with it.

In fairness, he must be totally pissed off with the current injury situation, yet again, especially with whom was / wasn't available on Saturday.

As regards the youth / development squad, Ty Marsh showed exactly why Wilder is loathe to just throw them in and expect them to deliver. Marsh is no where near a league 2 player yet. It's a massive step up.
That to me is the point.
The introduction of the DevSquad has meant a wholesale change of aproach to the senior squad. While this can clearly be viewed as a positive model for future years, there is an issue with this initial season, in that 7 of the 9 players in the squad are first year pros. This means that they have not been near the senior side yet, so will require a gentle introduction, rather than being game ready. Therefore this limits the manager's options, particularly at this early stage in the season. Had Rigg waited until say January to be out for 6-8 weeks (how inconsiderate of him), the manager might have been more confident in putting O'Dowda in, as by then he would hopefully have had a few spells from the bench to get him settled. Similarly, with having 2 of our main 3 strikers unable to last 90 mins, he may have been more confident in starting Marsh, rather than forcing Kitson to play and/or moving Potter or Hall forward.

Next season, the DevSquad will be more balanced in terms of first team experience, with say half a dozen of the current 9 kept on (and getting some League experience) and a handful of new U18 graduates joining, meaning that it would be able to provide a more robust backup to the seniors. This season however, I would suggest there has been a conflict in terms of the squad budget. To get the DevSquad off the ground, the club had to recruit something approaching the full quota of players for form the U21 squad, with that chunk of the wage budget put aside, HOWEVER given the lack of experience of those recruits, the manager is clearly going to be concerned at having to limit the senior element of his squad to the number required in the DevSquad model, which may explain the nature of some of his comments over the weekend. Personally, I think I would like to have seen an additional forward and another defender in the squad for this season only - early 20s with some league and/or Conference experience - say for example, Harry Worley and Matt Taylor - to bridge the gap between the main protagonists and the DevSquad, while not hammering the budget.
Personally, I don't think adding this safety net for this season only would have a negative impact on the model or the current DS members, it would just mean that Wilder would feel more comfortable starting them, when 2 of our main strikers/centrebacks are out, rather than having to start a 'virgin' DevSquadder or shuffle his square pegs around.
However, it hasnt happened, so Wilder will have to go with what he has, which he appears ready to do, if not necessarily happy to.....
Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Kairdiff Exile »

But given that the fans and Chairman all clearly believe in the Development Squad principle and support the idea of blooding young talet, it's incredible that Wilder is so reluctant to do so. No-one would have criticised him for starting Ty Marsh at the weekend. If Marsh had risen to the challenge and performed well, Wilder could have taken the plaudits - and if it hadn't come off, he'd have been able to look the Chairman in the eye and say that he was trying to give the Development Squad their chance.

As it is though, the reticence to play the youngsters except when absolutely forced to do so must knock their confidence. I agree that Marsh looks some way off where we need him to be - but it's the old chicken-and-egg argument about improving and experience, and Wilder should have learnt by now that he needs to stop using injured or out-of-position senior pros when there are young lads desperate for a chance to prove themselves.
Isaac
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Isaac »

There's the risk though, that if you play a young player from the start before he's ready (and Marsh seems to fit into this category), you might destroy confidence, set them back developmentally and end up doing more harm than good. It's one thing bringing on a young player to "see what he can do" for 20 minutes, it's another thing entirely if you play them from the start and then have to take them off after an hour because they are out of their depth.

If this is what Wilder thinks might happen, he's arguably doing the right thing, rather than (as suggested by Kardiff) chucking some youth players in, seeing them fail, just to prove a point to the chairman.
GodalmingYellow
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by GodalmingYellow »

Yes there is a risk in blooding younger players, but that is understood by all parties, so there is no loss of face for player, manager, chairman, club, or supporters.

A young player isn't going to lose confidence if they are played for 60 minutes and then taken off. They will get confidence at being asked to start a match, and confidence from the experience.

Its only if you frequently play younger players and they fail that their confidence will be sapped.

And surely one of the skills of a good man manager is in keeping confidence high.
YF Dan
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by YF Dan »

Having just watched the highlights on Yellows Player, I'm a bit disappointed at the views being expressed by some that "Marsh isn't up to it" on the basis of him missing that chance.

It was far from the sitter that I was expecting. In fact, it was an ok first touch and a shot on target, and I'd credit him for making a decent run. We've had a number of signings made by our illustrious leader who would never have even go into that position...give the lad a break.

It's not like our big summer signing has been bulging the onion bag prolifically is it?
Isaac
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Isaac »

GodalmingYellow wrote: A young player isn't going to lose confidence if they are played for 60 minutes and then taken off. They will get confidence at being asked to start a match, and confidence from the experience.
Surely this depends on the player himself, plus the result of the game and the performance. Players don't magically become more confident just by playing games.
GodalmingYellow wrote: And surely one of the skills of a good man manager is in keeping confidence high.
And part of keeping confidence high is possibly not starting the young players if they're not ready for it.

Out of interest - and this is just guesswork - how many of the current dev squad do we expect to still be playing pro football in 5 years? Personally I'd be surprised if it's more than 2.
Out of the gloom
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Out of the gloom »

Personally, I think this was our best transfer window in seasons. Squad sorted before the season started. Message should be loud and clear. All players (senior, development and scholars) will get every opportunity to succeed safe in the knowledge nothing will change before January.

I am wary of too much emphasis in one set of post match quotes from CW. Every manager wants one more player. My opinion is that CW has already had this - Williams on loan. He is not a Development Squad member.

The Development Squad is a shift in emphasis that we all (fans and the manager) are just getting used to. The impression that the youth will only be tried after every other option has been exhausted will not go in an instant. Performances for the Development Squad will, hopefully, change this. The reason why O'Dowda is being championed is not just because Rigg is injured, but because O'Dowda impressed in opportunities to date.

Mooro makes a good point about the "virgin" nature of the Development Squad. However, I cannot agree with the idea of a "safety net". Yes the Development Squad would benefit from a more experienced head or two, but that is a role for senior players not starting for the first team. For example, Davies did an excellent job as captain v Didcot pre season. Raynes has yet not played. The Development Squad is about transition from scholar to first team. Logically it should therefore include members from both, when practicable, rather than be a standalone entity.
Mooro
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Re: Transfer window slams shut

Post by Mooro »

Out of the gloom wrote:
Mooro makes a good point about the "virgin" nature of the Development Squad. However, I cannot agree with the idea of a "safety net". Yes the Development Squad would benefit from a more experienced head or two, but that is a role for senior players not starting for the first team. For example, Davies did an excellent job as captain v Didcot pre season. Raynes has yet not played. The Development Squad is about transition from scholar to first team. Logically it should therefore include members from both, when practicable, rather than be a standalone entity.
Perhaps I was unclear, the two safety net players would be for the senior squad, not the DevSquad. In other words, to start games where two of the main three strikers are not fit, rather than try to nurse 45mins out of one of them/play someone out of position/start a Devver who might not be ready. But it would have to be someone the manager would be happy putting in for 90 mins, rather than someone (like Williams perhaps) where there is still some reluctance.
We've already seen the disruption with Smalley and Kitson not 100%, and I would imagine similar issues if we lost Wright & Mullins had to both miss a game.

I totally agree that we should try to have a couple of seniors in the Dev games where possible, perhaps with a specific remit to coach one of the fringe players at close quarters through the game (eg. Kitson or Beano playing 90 mins with Marsh with more of an eye on his game than their own).
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