Get in there!
See what your missing Wilder ?
Chappers
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joepoolman
- Mid-life Crisis
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Re: Chappers
WTF?"Frank" wrote:Get in there!
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Sideshow Rob
- Middle-Aged Spread
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Re: Chappers
Hat trick
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Paul Cooper
- Dashing young thing
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Re: Chappers
How strange thta a supporter starts a thread about a previous player when we won 3-1 away and this is not mentioned ....
Re: Chappers
The Hat trick Frank?"Frank" wrote:
See what your missing Wilder ?
Re: Chappers
Very strange - but we do have some f******g strange fans."Paul Cooper" wrote:How strange thta a supporter starts a thread about a previous player when we won 3-1 away and this is not mentioned ....
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Kernow Yellow
- Grumpy old git
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Re: Chappers
What is Wilder [or rather OUFC] missing? A player who does well in the Conference? I think we all knew that already."Frank" wrote:Get in there!
See what your missing Wilder ?
And why do you think we are missing him? Did you not think Davies played quite well today?
And why do you seem to take such pleasure in this? It's almost as if some of our fans want us to fail so their theories about Wilder can be justified...
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Joey's Toe
- Puberty
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Re: Chappers
I'll engage with the subject matter of the thread rather than the rights/wrongs of posting it after a good away win...
Two points:
1) Yes, Chapman's two oustanding performances for Mansfield have come in the CONference against poor opposition. But if we'd never heard of the guy and he'd had two exceptional games in the league below, surely we'd be arguing that he was worth looking at? The point which Frank was probably trying to make (with which I agree) is that the management at Mansfield are getting the best out of him, whereas Wilder had not done so of late. I would rather have Chapman firing on all cylinders as he is currently for Mansfield than any other members of our midfield currently. That might not be a widely-shared view, but it seems unarguable that Chapman on a good day is effective in League 2 (see last season's Sw*ndon game - a rare but useful example of his abilities at this level).
2) The second question is around Wilder's man-management style. He is clearly ruthless at getting rid of any player with whom he has a falling-out (Chapman being the latest in a long line - but see also Creighton, Foster, Green et al
. In some cases, their replacements have been better - but in others, they have not. My question is this - is Wilder's approach sensible or misguided? On the one hand, is clearly lances the boil of any dressing room discontent. The players who remain are playing hard for the manager (hence yesterday's result), and it means that his prickly management style remains effective (unlike, say, Malcolm Shotton - who found that shouting at the same group of players for two years wears thin if they decide they want rid of you). On the other hand, it has meant that lots of players who might have proved effective in the long-term with the right coaching and training end up being forced out for non-football reasons.
Two points:
1) Yes, Chapman's two oustanding performances for Mansfield have come in the CONference against poor opposition. But if we'd never heard of the guy and he'd had two exceptional games in the league below, surely we'd be arguing that he was worth looking at? The point which Frank was probably trying to make (with which I agree) is that the management at Mansfield are getting the best out of him, whereas Wilder had not done so of late. I would rather have Chapman firing on all cylinders as he is currently for Mansfield than any other members of our midfield currently. That might not be a widely-shared view, but it seems unarguable that Chapman on a good day is effective in League 2 (see last season's Sw*ndon game - a rare but useful example of his abilities at this level).
2) The second question is around Wilder's man-management style. He is clearly ruthless at getting rid of any player with whom he has a falling-out (Chapman being the latest in a long line - but see also Creighton, Foster, Green et al
. In some cases, their replacements have been better - but in others, they have not. My question is this - is Wilder's approach sensible or misguided? On the one hand, is clearly lances the boil of any dressing room discontent. The players who remain are playing hard for the manager (hence yesterday's result), and it means that his prickly management style remains effective (unlike, say, Malcolm Shotton - who found that shouting at the same group of players for two years wears thin if they decide they want rid of you). On the other hand, it has meant that lots of players who might have proved effective in the long-term with the right coaching and training end up being forced out for non-football reasons.Re: Chappers
There is a phrase in football management circles that goes something like "...you've got to know when to give a kick up the backside and when to put an arm around the shoulders...." and it seems, at our level in particular, there are a number of managers who only use the former and have no capacity for the latter, which in time usually means curtains for their tenure when the players respond no more.
On the face of it, this and the other cases you mention, could be the same thing, with Chapman needing more of an arm around the shoulders and a bit of 'love' to get the best out of him, which appears, at least initially, to be what has happened with the move to Mansfield. I'm sure it hasn't done any harm having his mate Adam Murray playing next to him and his family closer by.
The one thing this 'assumption' misses though is what caused any problem initially and what efforts have been made previously (and behind closed doors) to sort the situation out. The first real outward sign we got was the pre-half-time substitution the other week, but how do we know what the manager and staff have tried over the previous weeks to help, has he been rested when he has not felt in a good way (as opposed to being dropped), has he been given outside support or counseling, or what? If, for instance, the issue is that Chapman is suffering from depression (which would be understandable) it may be that the club have tried a myriad of things but that they have not helped and that this move is their last option in trying to help, rather than it just being him being gotten rid of?
A second question - would it be fair to say that Chapman's form has worsened over the last six weeks or so, perhaps co-inciding with the arrival of McCormick at the club? Could it have been his arrival has brought back some of the pain of what happened, OR could it be that the outpouring of anger among the fanbase at the latter's signing, which certainly spilt over into some discussion of Chapman's presence, has affected him mentally in terms of his own feelings of security at the club?
On the face of it, this and the other cases you mention, could be the same thing, with Chapman needing more of an arm around the shoulders and a bit of 'love' to get the best out of him, which appears, at least initially, to be what has happened with the move to Mansfield. I'm sure it hasn't done any harm having his mate Adam Murray playing next to him and his family closer by.
The one thing this 'assumption' misses though is what caused any problem initially and what efforts have been made previously (and behind closed doors) to sort the situation out. The first real outward sign we got was the pre-half-time substitution the other week, but how do we know what the manager and staff have tried over the previous weeks to help, has he been rested when he has not felt in a good way (as opposed to being dropped), has he been given outside support or counseling, or what? If, for instance, the issue is that Chapman is suffering from depression (which would be understandable) it may be that the club have tried a myriad of things but that they have not helped and that this move is their last option in trying to help, rather than it just being him being gotten rid of?
A second question - would it be fair to say that Chapman's form has worsened over the last six weeks or so, perhaps co-inciding with the arrival of McCormick at the club? Could it have been his arrival has brought back some of the pain of what happened, OR could it be that the outpouring of anger among the fanbase at the latter's signing, which certainly spilt over into some discussion of Chapman's presence, has affected him mentally in terms of his own feelings of security at the club?
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Frank
- Puberty
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Re: Chappers
???"joepoolman" wrote:WTF?"Frank" wrote:Get in there!
Do you not like it when players you used to like and cheer who used to play for us, score for another team ? It wasn't against us, so I see no problem with getting excited about it.
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Frank
- Puberty
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Re: Chappers
Paul, I'd review the list of topics for a second. Not all threads on here are about the last game/score. In fact, "Talking Torquay" got one reply!"Paul Cooper" wrote:How strange thta a supporter starts a thread about a previous player when we won 3-1 away and this is not mentioned ....
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Paul Cooper
- Dashing young thing
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Re: Chappers
OK maybe it is me then Frank. On an OUFC supporters forum when we win 3-1 away, I just find it slightly odd that the only thread seems to be celebrating a goal from a previous player of ours."Frank" wrote:Paul, I'd review the list of topics for a second. Not all threads on here are about the last game/score. In fact, "Talking Torquay" got one reply!"Paul Cooper" wrote:How strange thta a supporter starts a thread about a previous player when we won 3-1 away and this is not mentioned ....
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Kernow Yellow
- Grumpy old git
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Re: Chappers
But were you celebrating Chapman scoring a hat-trick or the fact that you thought it showed our manager in a bad light? Because if it's the latter then I do see a problem with that. Surely you should be moaning if you think our manager has made a bad decision, not celebrating, because it means we have lost out!"Frank" wrote:Do you not like it when players you used to like and cheer who used to play for us, score for another team ? It wasn't against us, so I see no problem with getting excited about it.
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joepoolman
- Mid-life Crisis
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Re: Chappers
I like to see them do well but "get in there"? There's no point me answering your question because Kernow Yellow and Paul Cooper have already done it for me in the posts above."Frank" wrote:???
Do you not like it when players you used to like and cheer who used to play for us, score for another team ? It wasn't against us, so I see no problem with getting excited about it.