Wilder Out?

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SWA
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Wilder Out?

Post by SWA »

Yes or no folks? For me, he has to go, we are going nowhere this season...
SWA
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by SWA »

Surely someone has a view on this and feels it is worth debating!? :shock:
Hog
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Hog »

Go on then, you start.
SWA
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by SWA »

Not much more to add really. IMO he has taken us as far as he can. We are one dimensional and we cannot seem to win enough games. A point away wouldn't be a bad result if we were winning all, or at least the vast majority, of our home games this season. We all know this is not the case. Our brief this season was top 3. We are miles away from that, and well off the final play off spot at the moment too. If we are going to have a push at promotion this season, surely we should change whilst we still have a chance of doing something in the league? I fear under Wilder, we will flounder in mid to lower table mediocrity. For a club our size this is simply unacceptable.
Dartford Ox
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Dartford Ox »

1. So who is going to pay off Mr Wilder's contract - you or do expect Mr Lenagan to dig even further into his pocket. It is very easy to spend other peoples money.
2. Who would you replace him with - and what guarantees can you give that they would be any better?
3. What gives you the impression we are a big club. We are not set in an urban metropolis - eg London Birmingham or Manchester with a catchment population of millions to draw on . We are a rural club surrounded by sparsely populated country side and really quite small in footballing terms. We are also paying exorbitant rent for the stadium.

I think a touch of realism is required.
amershamwrighty
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by amershamwrighty »

My view is that our number one priority is to avoid relegation this season. With that in mind, sacking CW could be disruptive.
slappy
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by slappy »

Do we really need a second &quotWilder Out&quot topic when there is already one on the first page of threads on the board, as well as a &quotWilder&quot thread?
Dr Bob
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Dr Bob »

&quotslappy&quot wrote:Do we really need a second &quotWilder Out&quot topic when there is already one on the first page of threads on the board, as well as a &quotWilder&quot thread?
Possibly not, but at least it has kick-started a bit of traffic again.

My view changes with the weather. On the one hand, I can see that we are going nowhere, have been stuck in a rut for pretty much the whole of calendar-year 2012 and, as time goes on, see no evidence of CW being able to turn things around. Indeed, I cannot think of a better argument for getting rid of CW than the one put forward by amershamwrighty - what the hell are we doing stuck in 18th and concerned primarily about avoiding relegation...(yes, I know that is not what you meant!)

On the other, I look at Blackburn and think - be careful what you wish for. Or is the Venkis going for Henning Berg like Kassam going for Shotton or Wright, rather than going through a proper recruitment process?

For me, though, I think on balance CW has to go, given how long our mediocre-to-poor performances have been dragging on now. I am also being entertained, in a sad and depressed kind of way, to see what excuse or combination of excuses he wheels out each week.

Given this persistent failure to turn things around, and to quote Count von Lichtenberg (as I have done several times over the years on this forum) I do not know if things will get better when they change, but one thing is certain - if things are to get better, then they have to change.
SWA
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by SWA »

@slappy - does anyone look that far down the page? Good to generate a bit more traffic. I've made my position clear, would be good to get some more opinions on the matter...
slappy
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by slappy »

If there's a thread already running, post on it and it pops up to the top.

A few people think that Lenagan will let Wilder's contract run out at the end of the season, which saves the cost of sacking and replacing him. Unless of course relegation starts looking likely. IL was at both Accrington and Morecambe, so is able to make his own mind up on the performances.

Tonight is an important game as there is of course the prize money at stake, as well as a shared gate in the third round.

Lose and there is still time to get a manager in for the January transfer window, as well as assessing the end of season out of contract players who will be free to look around if not offered new contracts in January. But, this is a busy few weeks of games, and would the disruption be worthwhile?

Win, and it boosts confidence, and we could be turning the corner of turning losses to draws to wins. Unbeaten in six games is it now?
SWA
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by SWA »

Unbeaten in 6 games, with 5 draws though?
Winning 3 and losing 3 actually gives you more points than 1 win and 5 draws to be fair.
Paul Cooper
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Paul Cooper »

My view is that being 18th is a disgrace. Even contemplating relegation is simply not good enough.

There have been a couple of false dawns- we have strung together 2-3 decent results but then when things look as if they could be picking up we throw in a Daggenham or Aldershot performance.

The table is tight and in reality we are not that far off the play offs. As those of us old enough to remember the Blackpool season, funny things can happen. I think that a new manager if correctkly selected would still have a chance of doing some wheeling and dealing in January and could still make a fist of going for the play offs.

A positive for CW is that the players are still clearly playing for him. The number of times we are coming back from being behind shows that heads are not dropping. But with promotion clearly being the aim this season and with people even discussing relegation the current situation is unacceptable.

I think that if we lose tonight IL will change manager (we really need a boost and so today it is vital that we win). Even if we win it seems to me that CW is on borrowed time unless the team can put together a really good run almost starting today.
Kernow Yellow
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Kernow Yellow »

As I said the last time we had a Wilder thread, I'm not sure why a cup result should have much bearing on his future. While FA Cup progress might be important for our finances, any cup success is a bonus really.

CW should be judged on our league position, and at the moment it is not good enough. However, I think he's doing just enough to avoid being sacked at the moment - but I mean only just enough. There have been various games which, had we lost them, would have left many more of us calling for his head, and I suspect IL might not have tolerated losing at Barnet, or at home to Wimbledon or Aldershot, for example.

I also agree that a change might not necessarily be for the better. In 2006 we changed manager (twice) and got relegated. In 2009 we changed manager and almost reached the play-offs. Who's to say what the result would be this time? Personally, I don't think our players are the world-beaters some seem to imagine, and I'm far from convinced that with simply a change of leadership they would show their perceived class.

So in short, I'm still pretty amibivalent.
Paul Cooper
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Paul Cooper »

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote: So in short, I'm still pretty amibivalent.
The trouble is that many supporters appear to be getting more and more ambivalent about the season.

Of course we are well aware that changing the manager will not necessarily make things better- Rix, Talbot, Patterson. Goodness.

But IF we go through proper process then a new spark is possible and we could move up the table. I think that things are just stale at the moment. there seem to be no new ideas. Look at CW when he first came here, Jones going to Sheffield Wednesday last season, Grayson at Huddersfield etc. The key thing clearly is to recruit properly and get the right man. Being worried that we may get somebody worse is not reason enough to keep things as they are in my mind.
Mooro
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Re: Wilder Out?

Post by Mooro »

Strangely, I'm actually moving away from the Out camp as time goes on!

With the assumption that we use a 'proper selection process' rather than the lightning appointments favoured by Kassam, Fleetwood and Brizzle, then whenever a decision is made is going to pose problems.
To do anything now would mean negotiating Christmas/New Year/FA Cup Rd3/(JPT SF?) under a caretaker while interviewing takes place, which would be disruptive and could mean lost points/cup exits, particularly while the squad are seemingly behind the boss, which in turn would lead to a harder job for the new man to get anything positive out of the season (which would have to be the aim of a change at this stage).
Waiting into January would most likely mean that the new man would have little or no time to do anything meaningful in the transfer window, most likely ending up restricted to a couple of panic buys or loans up until March, which given a continued presence in the lower half of the table (which presumably would be the case otherwise there would be no need to sack CW anyway), is as, if not more, likely to cause disruption in the squad rather than help, just at a time when they should be pulling together for the run-in.

I cite the year we went down to the Conference - when Jim Smith took over we were 16th, we finished the season in 23rd. Had we stuck with Talbot, or Patterson for that matter, then we would not have rocketed up the table, but I suspect that the squad we had would have stuck together and ground out enough points to have kept us up, at which point we could have changed the manager and saved ourselves however many years of trauma in the Conference. Instead Smithy came in, thrust 6 or 7 nobodies into the squad and the starting XI, destroyed any togetherness there was, which left us floundering as the pack all came past.

In other words, with Wilder in charge for the rest of the season, I dont see our league position changing much - there'll be enough sporadic decent performances to keep us away from the bottom, but not the consistency to move up the table to any great extent, while he may well continue to get us to progress in one or both cups. We can then make a decision at the end of the season as to his future, depending on the whole season (and without a payoff).
Not very inspiring, but a season of ambivilence, which can be written off and forgotten come Maytime, coupled with either a new boss over the summer, or a revised enthusiasm behind Wilder if he has managed to improve things.

At this stage I doubt that the alternative, that we move during the season, will see us get a great deal more out of this season, unless Mickey Lewis works wonders as a caretaker and the upper half of the table all slow down to wait for us to catch up as we go on a fantastical run to the end of the season once the new Messiah is appointed.
However, given our current position, there is a much greater likelihood that a change may actually have a negative impact on our season and see us dragged into the relegation battle for real. A poor spell under the caretaker and/or two cup exits, coupled with the potential for disruption to the squad of some or all current loanees going home and being replaced by last minute barrel scrapings that go into the side as the new mans favourites, and we could lose what misfiring momentum we currently have and find ourselves in trouble again.

So, for me it is now 'Wilder In' until the summer, (unless we suddenly nosedive and/or the dressing room stop backing him), and accept that this season is going to just bumble on in lower midtable, then make the decision in the summer unless things pick up again in the mean time.

Yes, we should have been able to expect more from this season, but I think we should beware of risking the dire consequences of instability by chasing what is, in all likelihood, beyond us.
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