Wilder out?

[ty cobb]

For those that called for Wilders head over the last couple of weeks care to admit you were wrong or do you still want rid?

As expected as we get our best players back the performances and results are starting to come.

[recordmeister]

Well, as I said in my synopsis of the 5-0 win last week, it really isn't about &quotWilder In&quot or &quotWilder Out&quot, it's about consistency.

If we start to win consistently, then brilliant. That brings additional security, comfort and stability to the club.

If we start to lose consistently, then there will be a legitimate reason to make changes and any surgery should be done swiftly and a replacement found who is capable.

However, if we bumble along between occasional wins (and let's face it, Accy were AWFUL and we SHOULD be beating teams in the bottom 5 or 6... and losses (should we really be losing to teams in the top 10?), smattered with draws in between, the nothing will change and it'll become increasingly frustrating for all involved, from fans, to players, to club staff and the board.

At the moment, we can not say clearly that we are in either camp and we won't be able to say with certain until at least after the Torquay game, if not the Chesterfield away game.

(Barnet in the FA Cup... who knows? They're on a winning run but may choose to focus their efforts on staying up. D&ampR we should win. Torquay away... well, a good team should be looking to swap places with them in the play-off spots by that time, so a draw minimum...

[GodalmingYellow]

For those that called for Wilders head over the last couple of weeks care to admit you were wrong or do you still want rid?

As expected as we get our best players back the performances and results are starting to come.

Didn't you post the same message about 3 weeks ago following a win, only to go very quiet again when we lost the following match, or did I dream it?

Such thoughts should not be based on the result or performances of a single match, but the results and performances over a sustained period. You would rightly criticise anyone who called for Wilder's head if we lost a single game, and it is equally right that the Wilder disillusionists should identify that Wilder is some way from a sustained period of improvement at this point. All Wilder has done so far is to give the feintist glimmer of hope a long way away on the horizon, that all might not be lost - barely even that.

Ask again in 5 or 6 games if we win the vast majority of them, and we might be a tiny bit nearer still.

If you want mind changed responses, you'll probably have to wait for Christmas and a place in the play off positions at least.

[Boogie]

OK, I shall admit I was in the Wilder Out camp.

However, as long as he stops his tinkering habit from previous seasons, allows players to get used to 4-4-2 and lets the front two continue to build what now looks like a very promising strike partnership then I shall stay back in the Wilder In camp.

I shall look forward to seeing what he does when Batt is fit again. Whing has to keep his place, surely?

[Dr Bob]

I was veering towards the Wilder-outs, because looking at 2012s results as a whole, the winning start to the season was the blip in an extended series of poor results, a picture made clearer when the poor quality of Plymouth and The Gas became obvious. Added to that, however, was his stubbornness to stick with 433, failure to adapt that when clearly not working, appearing to show favouritism to some players - I could go on, but these arguments have been revisited so many times here. Looking at the team in recent matches (ie after the six-match losing streak), Whing is the one long-term injury who has come back and played well (Leven is still not fully fit). So, he is playing a better formation, with players in positions they seem comfortable with. Oh - and he signed Mullins.

He failed to address his shortcomings for so long, I thought he would never change. Fortunately I was wrong.

[x586]

I was a 'Wilder Out' then, and remain a 'Wilder Out' now. I've not seen Oxford 'live' since the Burton Albion game, though I did (somehow) sit through the Port Vale game on TV. So - with that caveat, the only good thing so far this season is that we've beaten sides near us or below us in the table, and I guess that should mean we'll avoid relegation worries if that run continues. What bothered me particularly about the performance at Burton was the feeling that our 'second string' were - to put it mildly - incapable - and that the team relies heavily on a few 'class' players to get results. I don't think a manager - who has been in place for a long while - should get away with this - there is no real depth to the squad.

Personally, I'd like to see him through to the end of contract, and then let him go and join Scunthorpe (or wherever) next summer. Obviously, I'm delighted that we beat Wycombe, but I also think that those who have reversed positions on this are engaging in an exercise of papering over cracks.

[Myles Francis]

He failed to address his shortcomings for so long, I thought he would never change. Fortunately I was wrong.

As with GY's comments above, we need to give it more than a couple of games before such judgements can be made. Once we are back to &quotfull strength&quot I can easily see us going back to the same predictable 433 which largely got us into a mess in the first place.

[GodalmingYellow]

I was a 'Wilder Out' then, and remain a 'Wilder Out' now. I've not seen Oxford 'live' since the Burton Albion game, though I did (somehow) sit through the Port Vale game on TV. So - with that caveat, the only good thing so far this season is that we've beaten sides near us or below us in the table, and I guess that should mean we'll avoid relegation worries if that run continues. What bothered me particularly about the performance at Burton was the feeling that our 'second string' were - to put it mildly - incapable - and that the team relies heavily on a few 'class' players to get results. I don't think a manager - who has been in place for a long while - should get away with this - there is no real depth to the squad.

Personally, I'd like to see him through to the end of contract, and then let him go and join Scunthorpe (or wherever) next summer. Obviously, I'm delighted that we beat Wycombe, but I also think that those who have reversed positions on this are engaging in an exercise of papering over cracks.

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, Wilder has a 1 year rolling contract, which means that he will never be out of contract, unless he is sacked, or the terms of his contract are changed by mutual agreement. If this is correct, waiting for next summer would make no difference.

[x586]

A one year rolling contract would imply though (presumably) that it has a start and end date? No matter - give him to the end of the season (based on the form we're showing now). P45 if the first team (with the 'talent') go on another miserable run. Obviously, I hope they don't.

[A-Ro]

Wouldn't a rolling contract have to be endorsed by both sides?

[slappy]

Several first team players are out of contract in the Summer.
So a new manager at that point would be able to choose his own new players.
But Wilder would be looking to offer new contracts in January, otherwise they are free to talk to other clubs.

I think the team are finally getting some spirit back and confidence. We should have won at Rochdale, so that is a fairly good run we have put together.

For me, Batt and Potter overlap roles in midfield too much, and with Batt out for 6 weeks, I think he will struggle to get back in the squad if we continue to perform well.

[ty cobb]

I ask the question because I don't believe anyone can seriously consider getting rid of our 2nd most successful manager after a 5-0 win against a team near the play offs and a 3-1 win away to our local rivals for the season. How many more results do we need for people in the out camp to change their mind - GY suggests winning the vast majority (5 out of 6?) of the next few games which I think is clearly unrealistic.

You get rid of a manager when results are so bad that you have no option, they have lost the dressing room, the standard of football is dire or you think they will not be able to improve on past seasons.

Wilder clearly hasn't lost the dressing room, the standard of football is pretty good and Wilder has improved our league position every season he has been with us. Whilst results were getting to the position of making his position very tricky, this is no longer the case, we are on a decent run of form now and the earlier run can be explained by a shocking injury list.

Is he perfect? Of course not, but I still believe he is the man for the job. He fails if you expect him to reach the play offs as a minimum requirement - he should be aiming for them of course but I don't believe our budget should expect us to be there - if we get there it's a pretty good achievement considering our league position over the past 10 years or so.

[joepoolman]

While I have wanted Wilder to stay all season, and I still want him to stay, I don't really see why ty cobb would believe anyone/everyone who felt that Wilder's time was up a few weeks ago would have performed a full u-turn after the last few games. So in the last 3 games overall we've played pretty well, and collected 6 points out of 9, but if you felt strongly behind a manager you wouldn't want him to leave if you played pretty badly in 3 games and only collected 3 points out of 9, or maybe even if you only had 0 points out of 18.

Like most people I'm pleased to see 4-4-2 being played consistently, but my only reservation is I'm not sure if the midfield is a bit too soft when only 2 are in the centre, and neither of those 2 are Whing or Cox. I also think some criticism of the 4-3-3 formation is harsh, yes maybe it has helped us into a small &quotmess&quot, but it helped get us out of a much bigger mess previously to that.

My only problem with this debate is the Wilder In/Out &quotcamp&quot mentality that seems to be growing among many, myself included probably. I think we're all in the OUFC supporters camp, where everyone's united by the same desire, but there our some differences in opinion. Saying there are camps just divides up support unnecessarily.

[GodalmingYellow]

I ask the question because I don't believe anyone can seriously consider getting rid of our 2nd most successful manager after a 5-0 win against a team near the play offs and a 3-1 win away to our local rivals for the season. How many more results do we need for people in the out camp to change their mind - GY suggests winning the vast majority (5 out of 6?) of the next few games which I think is clearly unrealistic.

You get rid of a manager when results are so bad that you have no option, they have lost the dressing room, the standard of football is dire or you think they will not be able to improve on past seasons.

Wilder clearly hasn't lost the dressing room, the standard of football is pretty good and Wilder has improved our league position every season he has been with us. Whilst results were getting to the position of making his position very tricky, this is no longer the case, we are on a decent run of form now and the earlier run can be explained by a shocking injury list.

Is he perfect? Of course not, but I still believe he is the man for the job. He fails if you expect him to reach the play offs as a minimum requirement - he should be aiming for them of course but I don't believe our budget should expect us to be there - if we get there it's a pretty good achievement considering our league position over the past 10 years or so.

Same old repeating of the same old tired arguments, missing most of the important factors. Can't be bothered to go through the same argument all over again.

[GodalmingYellow]

A one year rolling contract would imply though (presumably) that it has a start and end date? No matter - give him to the end of the season (based on the form we're showing now). P45 if the first team (with the 'talent') go on another miserable run. Obviously, I hope they don't.

No, a one year rolling contract means that both parties are entitled to one year's notice of termination of the contract, or compensation for failure to provide the notice. Essentially it is like an everyday employment contract that most workers have, but with a one year notice period.