Not good enough

Anything yellow and blue
Brahma Bull
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Post by Brahma Bull » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:57 pm

I would tend to agree with most of GY's points except for the discussion about budgets.

We do not have the third biggest budget in the league. This is something we asked KT about at several OxVox meetings. Our budget is approx the seventh/eighth highest in the league, behind Slumdon, Crawley and half a dozen others. Slumdon's budget is over £3m apparently.

Kelvin confirmed that and it is somewhere in one of the more recent club meeting notes the Trust has had with him.

But that said, Play-Offs should be the min requirement this season.

A-Ro
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Re:

Post by A-Ro » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:32 pm

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:As regards budgets, You only need take a look at gate levels and ticket prices to determine who has the biggest budget, because everyone works on the same formula of 55% of turnover. Other matchday revenue is tiny in comparison and makes very little difference.
Isn't it the fact that Bradford only have such huge gates because they have a ridiculously low season ticket price or they give away kids tickets or something? I which case their budget may not even be as big as ours.

Brahma Bull
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Re:

Post by Brahma Bull » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:01 pm

&quotA-Ro&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:As regards budgets, You only need take a look at gate levels and ticket prices to determine who has the biggest budget, because everyone works on the same formula of 55% of turnover. Other matchday revenue is tiny in comparison and makes very little difference.
Isn't it the fact that Bradford only have such huge gates because they have a ridiculously low season ticket price or they give away kids tickets or something? I which case their budget may not even be as big as ours.
Indeed. BCFC Season Ticket Pricing for the past few seasons has seen them get five figure home gates. This season the average home attendence (or those included in those figures) is about 9500. All as a result of Cheap cheap season tickets sold in the summer.

This weekend, at home to Hereford, they got 17000|| through the gates. Hereford I understand had to pay full price admission, the others were £1.00 per ticket (plus £2 online booking fee).

That only saw them yield probably £15,000 - £20,000 in extra revenue by selling £1 tickets. They can only do that offer once a season in order not to upset the regular fanbase.

We could sell 1250 extra tickets at normal price to achieve that return.

SWA
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Post by SWA » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:15 pm

at last - a thread that has gone for more than 2 pages
been a long time...
#OUFC #WINNING

theox
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Re:

Post by theox » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:21 pm

&quotSmileyMan&quot wrote:Yes, we were crap on Saturday, but next weekend, when we make up 25% of THEIR season's L column, no-one will remember...
This, for me, is part of the problem this season. Too much focus is being placed on just 2 games out of the 46........

I can't wait until Saturday is over, win or lose, so that we can finally concentrate on the rest of the season.

slappy
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Post by slappy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:22 pm

going off topic a bit, but the Moonrakers are selling next year's tickets already. If they pay in March, renew their Season Ticket will be £350 in the side stands and £320 in the Town End, or £30 more for new ST holders. April to May = £350/£380. Not sure about after May. Under 10s join the junior reds for £25 and all home games are free. Juniors (under 15s) = £120 in March /£150 after. Young adults (16-18)= £250 in March, £280 after.

joepoolman
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Post by joepoolman » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:13 pm

GY, I'd agree that most of your points are relevant criticisms of Wilder, but I think any club that have had a manager for more than a dozen games can make relevant critcisms of the manager, I think where we differ is on standards that you should demand from a manager, and our chances of getting anything better.
I would keep Wilder purley on the fact that (in my opinion) the year on year trend is clearly up, and I don't think he's had a bottomless pit of money to do it with, I don't like Evans at all, and I agree he's done well, but he did have a lot of money to build a team with (at this level).
And on the loyalty subject, I believe critcisms aimed at players at the top level are valid, and there isn't enough loyalty in football and I think this entitiles him to more time, but I think that aspect we'd just have to agree to disagree on.
Finally I think that a new manager would most likely be a big gamble as they could well take us backwards.

SmileyMan
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Re:

Post by SmileyMan » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:30 pm

&quottheox&quot wrote:
&quotSmileyMan&quot wrote:Yes, we were crap on Saturday, but next weekend, when we make up 25% of THEIR season's L column, no-one will remember...
This, for me, is part of the problem this season. Too much focus is being placed on just 2 games out of the 46........

I can't wait until Saturday is over, win or lose, so that we can finally concentrate on the rest of the season.
Aw, come on, grow some chest hair!

I'm not going to be calling for Wilder's head if we lose against the league leaders with an excellent season record and an even better recent form.

But I would love it, absolutely love it (Keegan stylee) if we stuffed them home and away this season, especially after Di Canio's shenanigans with Beano.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:35 pm

&quotBrahma Bull&quot wrote:I would tend to agree with most of GY's points except for the discussion about budgets.

We do not have the third biggest budget in the league. This is something we asked KT about at several OxVox meetings. Our budget is approx the seventh/eighth highest in the league, behind s*****n, Crawley and half a dozen others. s*****n's budget is over £3m apparently.

Kelvin confirmed that and it is somewhere in one of the more recent club meeting notes the Trust has had with him.

But that said, Play-Offs should be the min requirement this season.
There's no way that can be accurate BB. We know Crawley's average gate is just over 3,000. Someone would have to donate in excess of £1m a season for them to even match our budget. It is well known that this is why they sold Tubbs for £800k.

Kelvin has publicly confirmed that we have reached our budget limit, therefore Wilder has not been provided with a restricted budget, but has been given access to the maximum that the club can give him under the FL rules.

The gate figures don't lie. There may be a little room for manouvre at the margins but no more than that.

I am sure Kelvin wouldn't be untruthful, so I would need to see exactly what he said, and in all honesty, he won't know what other club's budgets are any better than we do.
Last edited by GodalmingYellow on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:39 pm

&quotjoepoolman&quot wrote:GY, I'd agree that most of your points are relevant criticisms of Wilder, but I think any club that have had a manager for more than a dozen games can make relevant critcisms of the manager, I think where we differ is on standards that you should demand from a manager, and our chances of getting anything better.
I would keep Wilder purley on the fact that (in my opinion) the year on year trend is clearly up, and I don't think he's had a bottomless pit of money to do it with, I don't like Evans at all, and I agree he's done well, but he did have a lot of money to build a team with (at this level).
And on the loyalty subject, I believe critcisms aimed at players at the top level are valid, and there isn't enough loyalty in football and I think this entitiles him to more time, but I think that aspect we'd just have to agree to disagree on.
Finally I think that a new manager would most likely be a big gamble as they could well take us backwards.
I think those are valid points which all form part of the equation of to keep or not to keep. I don't think we are actually that far apart. You think we should keep Wilder whatever, I think we should keep our options open.

amershamwrighty
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Post by amershamwrighty » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:52 pm

This thread is a terrific example of why discussion forums need to exist - GY kicked off with a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, spiced with a hint of controversy about CW and an entertaining debate has followed. Nobody became hysterical, there haven't been any childish spats, but the debate has been enhanced with each contribution.

I'm not going to spoil it by putting my oar in !

SmileyMan
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Re:

Post by SmileyMan » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:56 pm

&quotamershamwrighty&quot wrote:This thread is a terrific example of why discussion forums need to exist - GY kicked off with a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, spiced with a hint of controversy about CW and an entertaining debate has followed. Nobody became hysterical, there haven't been any childish spats, but the debate has been enhanced with each contribution.

I'm not going to spoil it by putting my oar in !
On behalf of the IT industry, I accept your implied thanks!

The Boys from Up the Hill
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Re:

Post by The Boys from Up the Hill » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:36 pm

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote: Kelvin has publicly confirmed that we have reached our budget limit, therefore Wilder has not been provided with a restricted budget, but has been given access to the maximum that the club can give him under the FL rules.
But was he referring OUR budget (i.e. the one that was set by the club at the beginning of the season) or the Football League budget limit?

Snake
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Post by Snake » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:07 pm

An odd title to this thread. “Not good enough

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:47 pm

&quotThe Boys from Up the Hill&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote: Kelvin has publicly confirmed that we have reached our budget limit, therefore Wilder has not been provided with a restricted budget, but has been given access to the maximum that the club can give him under the FL rules.
But was he referring OUR budget (i.e. the one that was set by the club at the beginning of the season) or the Football League budget limit?
The FL one.

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