Not good enough

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GodalmingYellow
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Not good enough

Post by GodalmingYellow » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:47 pm

That goes for the team as a whole, the players Wilder has brought in this year, and for Wilder himself.

That was a very poor game of football. Macc were terrible, and we managed to bring ourselves down to their level.

Really disappointed and not looking forward to next Saturday at all. On that performance, the pig hillians will do damage.

I am beginning to lean slightly towards the thought that Wilder is a good Conference Manager, but a mediocre League 2 Manager.

Radley Rambler
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Re: Not good enough

Post by Radley Rambler » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:30 pm

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:That goes for the team as a whole, the players Wilder has brought in this year, and for Wilder himself.

That was a very poor game of football. Macc were terrible, and we managed to bring ourselves down to their level.

Really disappointed and not looking forward to next Saturday at all. On that performance, the pig hillians will do damage.

I am beginning to lean slightly towards the thought that Wilder is a good Conference Manager, but a mediocre League 2 Manager.
I think that is a bit harsh GY, last season we consolidated well and this season we are in the play-off zone despite long term injuries to key players (Capaldi, Craddock). HOWEVER, we can not break down teams who come to defend and some of the blame for that must lie with Wilder's liking for solid rather than creative players and also his insistence on playing a man in front of the back four. Away from home, that works very well indeed but at home, you've got to take it to the visitors more.

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Post by Aylesbury Rich » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:43 pm

I actually think that this game was lost in the first 15 minutes. Several guilt edged chances went begging and a deplorable display by the refereeing team, which seemed to all go against us, took the wind out of our sails. After the Duberry own goal we completely lost the plot.

Their keeper looked nervous at the start- how different the game would have been if we had scored early. Could have had a hatful. Very frustrating afternoon, and a game we should really be winning if we want to go up.

recordmeister
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Post by recordmeister » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 pm

All a bit harsh, GY. I think Slumdon have a very good team (Bodin is a fanstic signing) but they seem to have really spent money there. Don't forget that one of their directors / investors made oodles of cash out of Betfair, didn't he??

Under Widler, we have consistently finished in a better league position and the moment we start to slip on that level is the moment to start questioning if a manager has hit his level.

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Post by pottersrightboot » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:14 pm

Abysmal. But even worse was the performance of referee and team. Scandalously bad. Held up play, lectured players for minor infringments constantly and completely ignored the most blatant display of time wasting since Gordon Brown became PM - ooh very political.

We cannot beat teams that park the bus. And that is all the monstrously bad Macc did. I also thought Wilder got the subs badly wrong. Not Rendell! He lets Beano play a bit. Not Whing! He had his usual tough industrious game with some fine tackling. Why not Leven instead, he was so effete today!

What was Duberry thinking of with that own goal? Why was he facing his own goals when defending a free kick?

GY you are harsh on Wilder though. Big picture is we are in a decent position. And I bet the performance will be 500% better next week. There was a lot of complacency out there today. Which manifested itself in that performance.

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Post by YF Dan » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:56 am

Getting rid of Wilder now would be a massive gamble, like getting rid of Atkins when we did. You'd need to be absolutely certain that the person you had lined-up would be better, available, certain to accept the job, and not Graham Rix. (For the record - I'm convinced that Atkins wasn't going to take us up, while a better manager than Rix would have. Whether an obvious candidate was available at the time, I can't recall.)

Wilder is still in credit, just, but that's enough. Now is not the time to speculate. But, if we don't get promoted this year, I think it would be fair to have a think about a fresh start. But there are a number of managers performing a lot better than CW's 6/10 at the moment.

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Post by joepoolman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:39 am

I get frustrated that some fans' views on the manager are purely founded on the result of that day, and when we win everything's rosie and we're going in the right direction etc. I enjoyed listening to a very upbeat Newcastle fan on 606 who just said how happy he was with the team currently on the day that they lost a 2 goal lead to relegation candidates.

I also don't understand the idea of Mr Wilder being a good Conference manager but not a good league manager at all, how can the league we're in affect the way he manages?!

GodalmingYellow
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Post by GodalmingYellow » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:25 am

It's always funny when people try to put words in your mouth.

View based on the day? That simply doesn't wash. We've dropped far too many points at home this season. We've had far too many games when we have such little creativity that we cannot break down the worst teams in the division where other sides score 4 or 5. We've had far too many games where we concede poor goals against poor sides. We've had far too many games where a decent side would have won, but we've sat back and not gone for the jugular.

I am also pretty sure I didn't mention changing the manager. I said he is mediorce at League 2 level, and not good enough to get us the promotion that we should be going for.

We are in the final play off position, but only just. With the money and opportuntities that Wilder has been given, this season should have been about at least getting close to automatic promotion. There are too many teams with far fewer resources than ourselves above us who play far better football. Our good football lasts in spells of a few minutes rather than a few matches. Our bad football lasts in spells of a few matches rather than a few minutes.

And it isn't just about all that either. The fact is that for the majority of this season, we have played mediocre football and at times all too regular, we have played very poor football.

We are in the final play off position, but for how long? Our form against some really rubbish teams this season, and indeed currently, is so bad that promotion this season seems a long way off.

Last of the play off positions by the skin of our teeth isn't good enough at this point, and we are not good enough to get promoted. Even in what seems an unlikely scenario that we end up in the final play off position, the chances of us beating 2 of the teams above us (one of them twice) seems to me to be clutching at straws at best.

These are all symptoms of a team and manager not performing to the level we should expect for the money and facilities.

You don't change a manager without someone else better being available. My advice to Kelvin Thomas would be to check to see who is available, and then at least think about whether a change would help or hinder.

If we don't make the play off final this season, my position will certainly change to Wilder out, because it will largely be his fault.

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Post by A-Ro » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:22 am

Can anybody explain why the referee made us take a free kick for a foul when he could have let us play advantage and yet ten minutes later when we committed a foul in the same position he let Macc play on then came back and booked Leven. And what on earth was he thinking with that drop ball? He had made a fool of himself by blowing up too quickly when our player went down injured then got up as the ref blew the whistle so the only option was a dropped ball which we wanted to compete for so the ref set it up for a competed drop ball then threw it behind himself so that it went to the Macc players.

Some of his decisions were so one sided and actions so bizarre you have to question his motives.

Old Abingdonian
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Post by Old Abingdonian » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:31 am

Although normally a 'glass-half-full' fan, I agree that CW seems to have no strategy to counter the failure, going back three years now, to beat defensive teams at the Kassam. This, in a nutshell, is our problem.

Yesterday, as Micky said quite correctly on RadOx, there was a stunning lack of quality in attack: poor finishing, lack of skill to produce more chances. To me, this seems to be a consequence of a slow tempo, giving the opposition the opportunity to mark up and organise, and little intelligent movement up front.

In terms of personnel, we have been unlucky with injuries (after a couple of seasons of good fortune), and two summer striker signings did not pay off immediately (Smalley &amp Pittman), and MacLaren faded. This leaves a very good back five, Peter Leven and Beano as good L2 players. Add Alfie's injury, and we struggle a bit, but I would blame CW more for his signings than his current tactics.

We badly need a midfield strategy for next season, assuming we do not go up.

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Post by BigCrompy » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:49 am

I was far too little a lad at the time to know, but for those who do, how reminiscent of the period 1980-3 is this?

I believe we were bubbling under but nowhere close to dominating until a change was made and everything clicked.

Personally I have no doubt at all, the law of averages says we will win handsomely next week, probably 3-0 - but ultimately we are going to finish more than ten points short of third place, which for the squad we had on paper and the money spent would be about C|| for the year.

Old Abingdonian
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Post by Old Abingdonian » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:08 am

I started watching Oxford again during the 1980 - 3 period after a few games as a kid in the 1970s.

My memories of that side were that the overall standard was poor by comparison with today, and more importantly, that over a few years, we 'built' a side: players like Gary Briggs came in, then Shotton, Hebberd and Andy Thomas. There were plenty of less good players, who went on their way (Phil Lythgoe, Paul Berry spring to mind).

So at the risk of appearing a dewy-eyed nostalgic, it would be great to do the same thing, but modern player turnover makes this hard - because the pressure is on to sell players who out-perform our league - so, in 2012, would we be able to hang on to a Gary Briggs equivalent?

If we were to build for the Championship, which players would you retain for next season, given a completely free hand?

recordmeister
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Post by recordmeister » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:13 am

In that period did we not also have an aggressive, success-at-any-cost, multimillionaire (when the 'million' but meant something) Chairman to underpin the on-pitch situation, too? I would wager that this makes a lot of difference.

Massive kudos must go to the chaps down at Cheltenham. A profit this year from them || a really, really good team.

Old Abingdonian
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Post by Old Abingdonian » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:39 am

I certainly agree about Cheltenham - I thought, looking at their squad, that they might face a relegation battle. Well done Mark Yates.

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Post by Ancient Colin » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:12 pm

For me, it isn't just the signings or the lack of an effective flexible change of strategy or ineffectual substitutions, it's really abotu basic coaching. It's just so frustrating seeing players failing to make themselves available or take intelligent positions. Think of the number of times that the ball went wide to Batt or wideish to Davis and then them having essentially no options at all, no midfield player coming back square to make themselves available, no one coming close behind to act as an outlet. It makes the wide ball almost a liability as the high percentage of breakdowns from those positions makes us very vulnerable to counterattack. Think about the shambles at throw ins, no-one showing, most people far too far away, the first player to the ball not picking it up and looking for an option (Leven did that once and it created a chance: thereafter it was back to leave the ball for the fullback and run into a position where he can't reach you) . In general, players taking the wrong option.

I haven't seen us for a while and it felt to me like we had gone badly backwards ... maybe it's bedding in the new signings, but much of the passing and movement seems to have evaporated. What do they actually do in training? Yes we created quite a few chances, but that really reflects how woeful Macc were.

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