Conference Level

Anything yellow and blue
DLT
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Conference Level

Post by DLT »

My Slumdon supporting work mate went to see the trophy final at the weekend.

He is grinning like a cheshire cat today muttering things like 'you haven't got a clue how hard it will be to get out of that Division' and 'better football than I expected, by a long way'.
dr ceri
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Post by dr ceri »

I watched it on telly. Both of those sides would have beaten our team this season. Grays were very good.
boris
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Post by boris »

I also watched it on telly, and while I concur that Grays were very good, I thought that Woking were appalling. Since that game, though, Mark Stimson has resigned as Grays' manager, so they may well be in a bit of turmoil come the start of the season.

Having said that, I'm under no illusions how difficult our task will be. Not because the other sides are any good, but because we were absolutely woeful last season, and retaining the bulk of that substandard squad has not reassured me that we're going to get much better. I suspect that even sub-Conference teams will be less than scared of a midfield consisting of Mansell, Hargreaves and Quinn.
Kernow Yellow
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Re:

Post by Kernow Yellow »

&quotboris&quot wrote:I'm under no illusions how difficult our task will be.
Surely you mean 'We're a massive club, the Conference will be a terrific laugh and we'll be promoted by Christmas. Not only that but we'll have the biggest attendances non-league football has ever seen, cos we're the best fans in the world'?

Sorry, I've been lurking on TiU too long.

The reason I don't think we can 'do a Carlisle' is because we haven't got the nucleus of a talented, confident squad like they had when they went down. I also get the impression that our squad aren't quite so fully behind their current manager as Carlisle's were behind Simmo, though I may be wrong...
Mooro
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Post by Mooro »

I get the feeling that we won't struggle as much as many clubs do.

In the past some have gone down and just assumed that they just need to keep to roughly the same standard as they had before and they will bounce back easily. By the time they realise and start implementing changes they have been swallowed up in the mire...

With us, the revolution started in March when Merry arrived, rather than only grinding into gear once the season starts, so we are already overhauling the squad and other things around the place. This, in theory, means that we will have a more positive approach to the new season come August, which will hopefully keep us in contention.

It is perhaps also worth noting that Carlisle only finished 3rd when they came back up. Realistically a playoff spot is as much as we can hope for.
Resurrection Ox
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Re:

Post by Resurrection Ox »

&quotMooro&quot wrote:I get the feeling that we won't struggle as much as many clubs do.

In the past some have gone down and just assumed that they just need to keep to roughly the same standard as they had before and they will bounce back easily. By the time they realise and start implementing changes they have been swallowed up in the mire...

With us, the revolution started in March when Merry arrived, rather than only grinding into gear once the season starts, so we are already overhauling the squad and other things around the place. This, in theory, means that we will have a more positive approach to the new season come August, which will hopefully keep us in contention.

It is perhaps also worth noting that Carlisle only finished 3rd when they came back up. Realistically a playoff spot is as much as we can hope for.

Disagree. NO reason why we cannot be champions.
ty cobb
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Re:

Post by ty cobb »

&quotMooro&quot wrote:I get the feeling that we won't struggle as much as many clubs do.

In the past some have gone down and just assumed that they just need to keep to roughly the same standard as they had before and they will bounce back easily. By the time they realise and start implementing changes they have been swallowed up in the mire...

With us, the revolution started in March when Merry arrived, rather than only grinding into gear once the season starts, so we are already overhauling the squad and other things around the place. This, in theory, means that we will have a more positive approach to the new season come August, which will hopefully keep us in contention.

It is perhaps also worth noting that Carlisle only finished 3rd when they came back up. Realistically a playoff spot is as much as we can hope for.
Are we really overhauling the squad? We're keeping most of the squad on. We don't look like retaining any of the players we brought in March (just as well as most of them were a waste of time).

The main problem last season was the midfield. It looks like we're going to end up with the same group of battlers before. It's a sorry tale when Mansell can get player of the season when he is incapable of putting even a half decent cross in.

It's going to require a lot of very hard work to get out of this division, I don't think at the moment the team let alone the squad is anywhere near good enough and it looks like we're going to be waiting to get the players no-one else wants come July.

Am I also the only one to have some doubts whether Jim is capable or has the motivation to do it?
Mally
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Post by Mally »

I think it all depends on the players who can be enticed in. The survivors from this season aren't going to set the conference alight but they are solid enough.

The key requirements are creative/attacking midfield players and a 25 goals a season striker. Bradbury and Hackett were the nearest we had to those sort of players and I can't remember the last time we had a striker firing on all cylinders (Dean Windass perhaps?).

I'd like to see:

1. An experienced playmaker to sit at the heart of the team and pull the strings. Magilton would have ben perfect for this role and I had hoped that Gemmill could have performed the same role.

2. A fast old fashioned winger who (unlike Hackett) can also stand up when challenged by an average full back and can get a cross in 7 times out of 10.

3. A strker who can make intelligent runs and who can hit the target with his eyes closed.

That, Jim, is your mission for the summer.
Isaac
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Post by Isaac »

From memory, the season Carlisle got relegated they were bottom and a long way adrift for ages, it was only towards the end of the season that they started getting it together and that was when they deliberately signed players who they'd keep for the season after regardless of the division they were in.

Obviously, we haven't had the chance to do that and I think the concerns about Jim Smith are valid. However, I thought we improved marginally when he arrived, I felt we created more chances (which we largely missed) but looked more nervous at the back (probably due to the league situation). More importantly, if any manager is going to be given time by the massed hordes, then it should be him and if any manager has these contacts that are seen as important then it's him. I think it's vital that we don't go through our usual 3 managers next season, as the club needs promotion within 2 seasons and I'm pretty sure that'll be impossible with continual upheaval.

The implications of spending 2 or more seasons in the conference are worrying, financially, as whether or not we own the stadium we don't want to be paying rent/mortgage on a 12500 ground, based on 2500 crowds. I haven't seen much discussion on this, but our advantage over other conference sides in terms of stadium, support and revenue (which is seen as the reason we have a good chance of promotion) could easily be eroded by paying a large % of our income on the stadium, could it not?

While the claimed return of stay away supporters is encouraging, I don't believe for a minute that most of them stopped coming because of Kassam. In my opinion, most stopped coming because we were useless, rarely won, were relatively expensive which are all good reasons. A bad start and I think people will drift away again for the same reasons.

I do think it'll be entertaining though, possibly not for the right reasons, but I'm still looking forward to the season, which I haven't been for a few years now.
GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow »

&quotIsaac&quot wrote:From memory, the season Carlisle got relegated they were bottom and a long way adrift for ages, it was only towards the end of the season that they started getting it together and that was when they deliberately signed players who they'd keep for the season after regardless of the division they were in.

Obviously, we haven't had the chance to do that and I think the concerns about Jim Smith are valid. However, I thought we improved marginally when he arrived, I felt we created more chances (which we largely missed) but looked more nervous at the back (probably due to the league situation). More importantly, if any manager is going to be given time by the massed hordes, then it should be him and if any manager has these contacts that are seen as important then it's him. I think it's vital that we don't go through our usual 3 managers next season, as the club needs promotion within 2 seasons and I'm pretty sure that'll be impossible with continual upheaval.

The implications of spending 2 or more seasons in the conference are worrying, financially, as whether or not we own the stadium we don't want to be paying rent/mortgage on a 12500 ground, based on 2500 crowds. I haven't seen much discussion on this, but our advantage over other conference sides in terms of stadium, support and revenue (which is seen as the reason we have a good chance of promotion) could easily be eroded by paying a large % of our income on the stadium, could it not?

While the claimed return of stay away supporters is encouraging, I don't believe for a minute that most of them stopped coming because of Kassam. In my opinion, most stopped coming because we were useless, rarely won, were relatively expensive which are all good reasons. A bad start and I think people will drift away again for the same reasons.

I do think it'll be entertaining though, possibly not for the right reasons, but I'm still looking forward to the season, which I haven't been for a few years now.
On football revenues alone, the conference will be hard financially.

But buying the stadium improves matters not makes them worse.

The StadCo has made a big profit this year I am told (circa £1.5m), and so rather than the club incurring mortgage costs eating into club income, the stadium will contribute to the club as was originally intended, if bought. This is one of the reasons why Kassam wants such a big premium to sell the stadium to WPL.

There are also plans to make much greater use of the stadium to increase that contribution further.

On Jim Smith, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think he came back to finish off the job he didn't complete first time around (ie to get the club back to the top flight). Relegation does little to help that.

I suspect he will stay around long enough to get us a couple of promotions.

Anyone on here know the wage cap rules for the conference?

On the players, for me Mansell deserved player of the season and is the only one of the midfield I would keep, but to play at right back.

Maybe the others are still under contract and won't be moved on until we're certain of having a big enough squad.

Whilst I'm looking forward to next season for lots of reasons, I wouldn't want more than 1 season outside the league.
ty cobb
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Post by ty cobb »

I think it is vital we own the stadium come the new season. We have no real long term future if we don't. The whole point about moving away from the Manor was for the new stadium to generate more income.

Does anyone know what the sticking point is - is Kassam asking for too much? He did after all say that he thought it was very important for the two to be sold together. What do people think is a reasonable price? Personally it should be whatever it cost him, minus any of the rent we've paid so far and a bit less then that as a goodwill gesture as hes got a very nice leisure complex and hotel out if it.

I would hope OxVox will mobilise the troops should Kassams demands be unreasonable, once the deal is done it will be too late and if £17 million be the actual price it could well cripple us next season and for years to come.

I agree about the crowds slipping mainly because of the football on offer. The Kassam factor may have affected at max 200 people and if we don't start well next season we could be looking at sub 4000 crowds on a regular basis given the poor away support.

Oddly I would be more confident about getting promoted next season should we have stayed up.
SwissBloke

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Post by SwissBloke »

With the English half of my family all Hereford fans I've been able to get a good idea of conf football.

The basic feedback is that the conf was way harder than expected and every team will treat the visit to Oxford as the highlight of the season. We're in for a tough season unless we get a settled squad that starts well.

Standard of most conference teams generally are the same as Div 4.

Hereford have been there or there abouts for the last few seasons and that's the biggest frustration. You can have a great Season and finish 2nd but still not go up.

They are staggered we've gone down and think that we SHOULD have the resources to put together a team for automatic promotion. If we do or not is the question.... :?
admin
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Re:

Post by admin »

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote: Anyone on here know the wage cap rules for the conference?
I'm not sure of the actual rules. I think they're available on the Conf web site, and when I read them I remember thinking that they were particularly complex.

The punishment for exceeding them can be severe
GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow »

&quotadmin&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote: Anyone on here know the wage cap rules for the conference?
I'm not sure of the actual rules. I think they're available on the Conf web site, and when I read them I remember thinking that they were particularly complex.

The punishment for exceeding them can be severe
OK Ive found the rules now.

For anyone interested http&#58//www&#46confguide&#46com/newsA ... 6do?id=958

There is apparently a formula, which is not published, for teams dropping from the FL.

Using their standard formula:

Don't know what our turnover last season was, but I'm guessing at £2m

On that basis, our baseline budget would be £350,000 plus 25% of £2m, so £850,000 in total. FL equivalent would have been £1.2m.

The bigger the turnover, the small the proportion that can be spent on wages. Evens things out for smaller clubs, but not so advantageous if you drop from FL and want to get straight back again.

I imagine that the unpublished formula gives more leeway to relegated clubs.

There is also an option to increase the turnover figure by a one off share issue.

The budget has to be agreed by 30 June before the season, and penalties are 3pts and up to £10k fine for first offence, getting progressivley more severe for subsequent breaches.

My first reaction to these rules is, how come we've only released 8 players?
boris
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Post by boris »

My understanding is that we get a £300,000 parachute payment for dropping out the league (reduced next season to £20,000 if we don't go back up). In addition we have that £50,000 that was won in the Boycott Coca Cola competition.

It's unclear (at least to me) from those rules what benefits accrue from increasing the club's turnover, so how much it benefits the club to take possession of the stadium in order to increase and maximise alternative revenue streams (although I'm in no doubt that it is in the club's interests to get the stadium for other reasons). Once we're over the £1,000,001 figure then the basic squad budget doesn't increase.
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