Points deduction

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

While you chaps carry on....here is what I think I know, along with what we might reasonably infer, from what has been made public. The tone of comments from the club suggests to me they are absolutely clear they did what they had to and were not in the wrong. The deduction of 5, rather than 11, points can (rightly or wrongly) be read as tacit acknowledgement that the Conference knew they slipped up, but for whatever reason felt the need to give a token penalty rather than do nothing and risk the wrath of other clubs....and rather than come out and say their systems are flawed and admit changes are needed. (BTW I do not for a second agree with the TiU conspiracy theorists that the Conference did this to keep us in this league, because they somehow 'need' us).

This strikes me as quite possible, but isn't it at least equally likely that it's an implict acknowledgement that there was fault on both sides, that neither club nor league did what they should have done?

(It would help, of course, if it were not actually implicit, if somebody actually said so.

Rre: your comments about the club - again, if they think they have done nothing wrong, they should plainly say so. Unless and until they do (and they may of course do so) I don't think it's possible to accept that argument.

[Snake]

And just why are we using fax and snail mail in this day and age? Surely, the document (including the signature) could have been scanned and sent by email, with the recipient taking no more than 5 seconds to send a reply along the lines of ÔÇ£thanks, IÔÇÖve got itÔÇ?.

[A-Ro]

[quote=&quotSnake&quot]And just why are we using fax and snail mail in this day and age? Surely, the document (including the signature) could have been scanned and sent by email, with the recipient taking no more than 5 seconds to send a reply along the lines of “thanks, I’ve got it

[Snake]

[quote=&quotA-Ro&quot][quote=&quotSnake&quot]And just why are we using fax and snail mail in this day and age? Surely, the document (including the signature) could have been scanned and sent by email, with the recipient taking no more than 5 seconds to send a reply along the lines of “thanks, I’ve got it

[A-Ro]

It's started.

[Mally]

[quote=&quotA-Ro&quot][quote=&quotSnake&quot]And just why are we using fax and snail mail in this day and age? Surely, the document (including the signature) could have been scanned and sent by email, with the recipient taking no more than 5 seconds to send a reply along the lines of “thanks, I’ve got it

[A-Ro]

And more.

[Mally]

One mistake versus thousands of good decisions and actions.

Thousands?

Go on, list a few hundred for us then.

Perhaps I can help out here. How about for starters so far this season the correct registrations of:

Billy Turley (G)
Matt Day (D)
Chris Carruthers (D)
Joe Burnell (M)
Luke Foster (D)
Barry Quinn (M)
Yemi Odubade (F)
Adam Murray (M)
Phil Trainer (M)
Chris Willmott (D)
James Clarke (D)
Alex Fisher (F)
Declan Benjamin (M)
Sam Deering (M)
Matt Taylor (F)
Rob Davies (M)
Luke Bennett (D)
Levi Reid (M)
Michael Husbands (F)
Ben Hinchliffe (G)
Richard Groves (D)
Paul Evans (M)
James Dobson
Ian Sampson
Jamie Guy (F)
James Constable (F)
Lewis Haldane (F)
Reneil Sappleton (F)
Shane Killock (D)

With an organisation like the Conference this in itself would appear to be a massive achievement but he's managed to do this in the conference and the League for many years and as far as I can recall this is the only error and we aren't even sure if it is his.

[Werthers Original]

Dear Pena, I am sorry for being slightly rude. However I was provoked by what I thought was your disproportionately vituperative tone, over a matter that seemingly has few ideological or personal overtones. It's only supposed to be some chat about a hobby, FFS.

The 'personal' ref to your bookish trade, hardly the most wounding that most of will hear in a day, derives from the fact that many posters here run the constant risk of making a work error with really quite nasty public consequences, and so are maybe a bit more inclined to be charitable when discussing the performance of Mr Moore.

As for the principle of accountability, I am aware of it but he's hardly head of the prison service, is he?

[Mooro]

It appears that rather than the penalty being linked to the number of starts, it refers only to games involving the player which were played in August (this is true of the three Conference clubs, but not for Bognor who by that rule should have only lost 1pt not 7pts, although their case might be slightly different). My assumption here is that that is roughly the date that the Mansfield Town error was discovered.

This then actually implies an element of consistency from the Conference Board in that it is applying the same penalty for all three clubs as an acknowledgement that whatever checking process it was that picked up the one incident, should have equally picked up the others, and it is unfair to punish some clubs more just because it didn’t.

Using this logic, then I would imagine it extremely unlikely that any appeal will get the penalty reduced further, unless any new evidence is presented which convinces the panel that the club not only sent the correct documents, filled in correctly, but then followed this up with a communication in which it was confirmed to them that the registration had been processed successfully.

However, given the comments from Mansfield &amp Crawley already and no doubt other clubs who may seek to benefit, it remains possible that any appeal may allow the Board to increase the penalty, if they feel under too great a pressure from other clubs. I therefore maintain we should not appeal, although I don’t know whether either of the others can request that our penalty be raised as part of their own appeal.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

One mistake versus thousands of good decisions and actions.

Thousands?

Go on, list a few hundred for us then.

Perhaps I can help out here. How about for starters so far this season the correct registrations of:

• ....with an organisation like the Conference this in itself would appear to be a massive achievement but he's managed to do this in the conference and the League for many years and as far as I can recall this is the only error and we aren't even sure if it is his.

Great stuff but, ah, don't in fact nearly all club secretaries manage to do this?

However I was provoked by what I thought was your disproportionately vituperative tone

Nothing vituperative about it, as far as I can see. If I'd wanted to vituperative, I'd have said &quotsack the bastard&quot or similar. But I didn't. I called for his resignation. Which I did on the basis of the principle of accountabilty.

As for the principle of accountability, I am aware of it but he's hardly head of the prison service, is he?

No, but all that follows from that is that if the principle is evaded (as it normally is, in all walks of life) the damage done is less. But it still stands. I don't agree that if Brown is in error (which I must assume he is until I have been provided with evidence to the contrary, and Dr Bob notwithstanding, I don't believe this has occurred it's a minor error: it's hard to think how he could actually do more damage, without actually breaking the law, than by costing his team a points deduction. Within the framework of his responsibilities and the possible damage to be done if they are not carried out, it's really very important and hence precisely the sort of thing that ought to lead an honourable individual to consider their position.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

You'd be amazed at how anal some people are on this subject, did you know that the vast majority of the investment banking community still use fax for trade confirmation?

The vast majority of the Aragonese book distribution community don't actually send confirmations at all.

[Snake]

I'd like to see Mick Brown's resignation, of course.

And if he did offer to resign, and it was refused, then what would you like to see?

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon....herds of wildebeest sweeping across the plain...

[Snake]

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon....herds of wildebeest sweeping across the plain...

Good, that’s cleared that one up, as I thought you may want to see Kelvin’s head on a stick for refusing it.