Expectations

[GodalmingYellow]

I've never said the fans should be blaimed for everything or do I think we are the most critical fans in England, however I do think many of our fans have the highest expectations going into matches simply because of the position we find ourselves in.

For example we would always expect to beat a team like Forest Green, either home or away, but they are a better team then us on paper (being higher in the league) yet the expectation is still there because we're Oxford United and they're a village team.

How often do you hear people say I can't believe we're losing to the poxy team?

Of course you reserve the right to display your displeasure - but before you do ask just what you are hoping to achieve by doing so - get rid of the manager, reduce a players confidence, expect a player to leave the club? All these things have contributed to where we are - of course they're not the main reason, far from it, but I think getting on players and managers backs after a few bad results, like what has happened now, is not going to do OUFC any good at all.

It depends how you look at things. Yes on an individual match basis you can say that we will probably lose to a side higher up the table but standing back a bit when you look at our resources we should be a better team than the vast majority of sides at this level. It also has to be remembered that the only reason we are lower in the table than sides like Forest Green is because we've lost to sides like Droylsden, Histon and Northwich.

We all know that money talks in football for most clubs at all levels so with the amount of money that has gone into Oxford United compared to those around us we should be doing a lot better.

Fans as a group are fickle because they are emotionaly attached but that works both ways. They can soon turn on sides who are playing badly but on the other hand if we were to go out and play great football and score a couple of quality goals then the atmosphere would change dramatically. Similarly if we were riding high in the league then losing to Tonbridge would be seen as a blip and fans would be prepared to applaud the team as long as they thought they'd gien 100%

As for getting rid of managers and players I've never been a believer in getting rid of managers unless it follows complete disaster such as relegation. All it means is that it takes another season to get the players recycled and you start again from scratch. I think the only reason people on here are talking about getting rid of players is because it was Patterson who broght this up in his post match interview on Saturday, effectively saying that the whole of the midfield and forwards were on probation for 3 months to save their jobs. If the reponse at Tonbridge is anything to go by then it could have been a big mistake but they stillhave the chance to redeemthemselves over Christmas,

I pretty much agree with that, and would go a little further to add that I think the Boxing Day game could be one of the most important in the club's history. We have traditionally drawn big crowds on Boxing Day, even in poorer seasons. If the players put on a show, then it just might mean the retrun of the spectators int he future. If the the players mess it up, then it could drive a large number away for a long time, with the consequences that that brings.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

after a few bad results

Is that in the sense that Rupert Murdoch's accountants save him a few quid in taxes every year?

[A-Ro]

Of course you reserve the right to display your displeasure - but before you do ask just what you are hoping to achieve by doing so - get rid of the manager, reduce a players confidence, expect a player to leave the club? All these things have contributed to where we are - of course they're not the main reason, far from it, but I think getting on players and managers backs after a few bad results, like what has happened now, is not going to do OUFC any good at all.

I'm sorry, I can't hear myself shouting &quotWell done Jeannin son, keep it up lad.&quot When he's passed the ball to the opposition for the 17th time that half. It just doesn't do it for me and it's sending the wrong message.

[Mooro]

Of course you reserve the right to display your displeasure - but before you do ask just what you are hoping to achieve by doing so - get rid of the manager, reduce a players confidence, expect a player to leave the club? All these things have contributed to where we are - of course they're not the main reason, far from it, but I think getting on players and managers backs after a few bad results, like what has happened now, is not going to do OUFC any good at all.

I'm sorry, I can't hear myself shouting &quotWell done Jeannin son, keep it up lad.&quot When he's passed the ball to the opposition for the 17th time that half. It just doesn't do it for me and it's sending the wrong message.

..but do you (that's the royal you, BTW) shout that when he makes a good challenge, or puts in a decent cross? Or do you reserve your comment for the player that misses the ensuing chance?

##
Unfortunately Boxing Day is Crawley and everything that goes with that delightful pairing of Steve Evans and Paul Raynor, who I doubt have ever been involved in a pretty or exciting game of football in their lives.

In other words we are likely to come up against a team that will doubtless not let us do anything without a kick for our troubles, so the chances of the game proving to be the advert for football that we desperately need a Boxing Day game to be to bring supporters back were pretty minimal from the day the fixture list was announced. The last couple of results, the season as a whole and the need to arrest the decline in attendances have raised the ante further, to the extent that for many people this will be almost a last chance for their continued support, so I really fear for the outcome if we cannot at least scrap our way to victory.
I’d like to say that the Kiddie game on the 29th won’t be as bad, but I can see them coming here fired up on the back of the Constable red card (I suggest James Clarke buys a second pair of shinpads &amp an industrial strength gumshield).

##
That aside - I have a lot of sympathy for Ty's view. Booing may inspire/fire up some players to improve, but it will make others (possibly the majority in a side already low on confidence) more nervous and error prone, and thus the cycle continues. I understand that some fans feel that the £20 they hand over entitles them to scream and boo as much as they please, but I cannot help but think it does not actually help what happens on the pitch. Opposition sides now know that if they hold us early on, they can turn the crowd and their job will be made much easier as our support ends up working for them.

In terms of solutions, how to break out of that cycle is difficult, as to do so requires 11 men to persuade 3-4-5000 (or whatever) that things are improving, when the latter are rarely in any sort of mood to believe it. Up to a point a few sturdy challenges or an isolated bit of skill may lift a crowd, but has it now gone too far for that – are people even looking for something to cheer them anymore?

Choice of personnel will help, no room for passengers any more, so any which are set to leave should acquire hamstring pulls until Jan 1st, leaving those that want to play to start to forge a team spirit for the rest of the season. I know this was meant to be one of Pattos strengths, but it seems to have only partially worked. I wonder whether some feel they can relax without the threat of a Jimbo tirade?

Otherwise, to borrow some horrible business speak, we do need to start re-aligning expectations. Whether we, the mighty Oxford, should be sweeping all before us because of who we are and who have been, does not matter any more. The time for doing that was last season and we blew it! We wont get anywhere expecting to start doing so again overnight, so instead we, as so many other relegated sides before us, have to regroup, reassess our situation and build a side worthy of challenging at the top of the table. With this season pretty much wasted, now is the time to set about an 18 month plan to be back in the race next time, in which the rest of this season is spent setting the foundations on which next season will be based ie. Which of the current squad are worthy contenders, which of the youngsters will be ready to be part of it, which system(s) works, what squad can we build on the (probably lower) budget we will have next season – get it started now, give Patto the job until Summer09 regardless, then build. It is no co-incidence that our best spell over the last ten years came when we gave a manager (Atkins) time.

Of course, given the rest of the topic I realise this is idealistic in the extreme, as a whole body of support are not willing to give anyone to the end of 2007 to solve things, let alone another 18 months, but until we do take a step back then we will never make those strides forward we all so desperately want.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

Otherwise, to borrow some horrible business speak, we do need to start re-aligning expectations. Whether we, the mighty Oxford, should be sweeping all before us because of who we are and who have been, does not matter any more. The time for doing that was last season and we blew it! We wont get anywhere expecting to start doing so again overnight, so instead we, as so many other relegated sides before us, have to regroup, reassess our situation and build a side worthy of challenging at the top of the table. With this season pretty much wasted,

What does this actually mean? What are the expectations that need to be realigned, who holds them and how would the process of realigning them help?

[A-Ro]

..but do you (that's the royal you, BTW) shout that when he makes a good challenge, or puts in a decent cross? Or do you reserve your comment for the player that misses the ensuing chance?

I'm never quick to criticise, in my example Jeannin wouldn't get an earbashing for his first mistake or even his tenth if I could see some good stuff in between and yes I have been know to shout &quotWell done&quot occasionally but not recently sadly.

Football fans in general don't like criticising players, we'd all be much happier clapping a good performance than having to vent our frustration on the nearest incompetent.

[Werthers Original]

'Football fans in general don't like criticising players'? You jest sir.

I'm in favour of changing the management regularly if they are hopeless, but not the players. I don't ever want to see Kemp, Rix, etc again, but would we be any worse if we'd just kept players like (for example) Jamie Cook and Simon Weatherstone rather than going through dozens of replacements, each no better than the last? After all they're both playing for better teams than us now.

[A-Ro]

'Football fans in general don't like criticising players'? You jest sir.

I don't think I'm alone in preferring to applaud a good move or game rather than slagging someone off.

Having said that if the only option open to one is having a go at a player it can feel quite satisfying.

[Mally]

'Football fans in general don't like criticising players'? You jest sir.

I'm in favour of changing the management regularly if they are hopeless, but not the players. I don't ever want to see Kemp, Rix, etc again, but would we be any worse if we'd just kept players like (for example) Jamie Cook and Simon Weatherstone rather than going through dozens of replacements, each no better than the last? After all they're both playing for better teams than us now.

The problem is that EVERY new manager likes to build his own squad so he has a clear out and brings in new players. To get a successful team you need a consistent squad AND management team. This is why I was so pro-Patto taking over from Jim because it meant we had some sort of consistency.

I'm confident that nearly every player at the club now has more than enough ability to succeed at this level. Time and time again players have been shipped out for under-performing at Oxford only to go on and be successful elsewhere. What is needed is a good manager to bring the best out of a team and getting the individuals giving 100% and all of them collectively playing as a team. That's what I thought I was watching at Kidderminster the other week. Something appears to have gone wrong since then but I'm still hopeful that it can be rescued. We're not going up this season but I'd like to think we can still move up the table and start building for a proper promotion campaign next season.

[Werthers Original]

Yes, that's what I was saying really, in a flippant manner. At this level it's management and coaching that count, teams like FGR don't have players who are great individually, but they are a settled consistent unit with good team spirit and tactics that work.

[GodalmingYellow]

'Football fans in general don't like criticising players'? You jest sir.

I'm in favour of changing the management regularly if they are hopeless, but not the players. I don't ever want to see Kemp, Rix, etc again, but would we be any worse if we'd just kept players like (for example) Jamie Cook and Simon Weatherstone rather than going through dozens of replacements, each no better than the last? After all they're both playing for better teams than us now.

Not remotely convinced by that argument.

It's not as if the players you mention have improved since leaving us. They haven't. They are playing at a lower level than we were playing when we disposed of them. So they are playing at a worse level. the problem is that the players we've replaced them with have frequently been even worse, or haven't been utilised properly by the managers, so OUFC has fallen further than the players we've disposed of and hence they now play at better teams than us. Very few players have left us for better teams, and in th e few instances where they have, that has been a contributory factor to our rapid downfall.

Oh how we'd love a Chris Hackett again.

[Werthers Original]

It wasn't exactly an argument though it is funny to note that we have come down to join some of our 'rejects'.

Yes, we could do with all three of the players released around the same time - Hackett, Bradbury and Davies. We'd probably be 8th in Div 4 now if we'd kept them.

[Baboo]

I think on the whole the Oxford crowd do “get behind the team

[Kernow Yellow]

[quote=&quotBaboo&quot]I think on the whole the Oxford crowd do “get behind the team

[Boogie]

An expectation to challenge for a play-off spot is still reasonable.

If this looks unlikely, I consider it reasonable not to turn up. I am not one for booing.