Kassam drove the club into the ground

[DLT]

I think if you look back at the first period Mooro refers to GY (Manor) your assumptions are completely incorrect.

Money invested in Fear, Anthrobus, Arendse, McGuckin, Thompson, Wilderbeest, Quinn, Scott etc (so many I can't remember them all) you can see that during two periods, Shotton and Kinnear, he invested very heavily in the team for no return.

Less easy to demonstrate is the investment he made when we arrived at the Kasstad, but I still think it was substantial.

I am not certain, though possibly I should be, but I think in the Wright, Rix, Argies eras there was plenty of money invested in the team.

Think of the dross Rix signed, none of it was cheap.

The Argies, Raponi and co were not cheap.

Sorry GY, but your claims that he has scrimped on the player budget doesn't add up for long periods of time.

I am not certain that it was Kassam who forced Hackett, Davies, Bradbury out of the door. I would say that was Talbot.

[GodalmingYellow]

I think if you look back at the first period Mooro refers to GY (Manor) your assumptions are completely incorrect.

Money invested in Fear, Anthrobus, Arendse, McGuckin, Thompson, Wilderbeest, Quinn, Scott etc (so many I can't remember them all) you can see that during two periods, Shotton and Kinnear, he invested very heavily in the team for no return.

Less easy to demonstrate is the investment he made when we arrived at the Kasstad, but I still think it was substantial.

I am not certain, though possibly I should be, but I think in the Wright, Rix, Argies eras there was plenty of money invested in the team.

Think of the dross Rix signed, none of it was cheap.

The Argies, Raponi and co were not cheap.

Sorry GY, but your claims that he has scrimped on the player budget doesn't add up for long periods of time.

I am not certain that it was Kassam who forced Hackett, Davies, Bradbury out of the door. I would say that was Talbot.

We'll have to agree to disagree then DLT. People like McGuckin were signed because they were the only players that Kassam would allow to be signed. They were awful because they were cheap and way past their due date.

And you forget the players we sold.

In fact players like McGuckin, were signed during the period when Kassam refused to spend because of the uncertainty surrounding the new stadium.

We can argue all night about who engineered the removal of who, but it changes not one iota the fact that Kassam did not sign players without selling first. Had Davies and Hackett not gone, Mills would not have been signed. Kassam only sanctioned Mills when other players had been moved on.

The Argies weren't that expensive in the scheme of things. They may well have become expensive had they stayed.

Rix did sign some dross, as did many before him, but they weren't that expensive, Mooney apart, considering the size of the club's turnover.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

[SuperOx]

Who on earth is Mills?

[Zeke]

I disagree with you GY. My memories over the Kassam era years seem to coincide with DLT's pretty closely.

The early years had significant investment for the level we were at (wasn't it 150k for Scott and Quinn? Another 100k for Moody?) and large wage packets for duds like Fear and the Bus. McGuckin was a reasonably well regarded player who was signed without taking a physical and turned out to have significant injury issues, if I remember correctly.

Later on as we settled into Division 4 obscurity, the teams wages were always among the top 4 or so in the division (at least it was rumored to be that high). Few/no teams were spending much in the way of transfer fees in Div 4 (Hull being the exception?). Finally, with the wage cap in place, it makes perfect sense that players were unloaded before new ones were brought in so I see nothing wrong with that.

To me, Kassam's failings centered on his abyssmal choice in managers and the wretched way the team was run from a commercial/fan perspective. I think he spent plenty of money on players.

[Baboo]

I imagine some of the ex-foul gang would add in
4) He was our mate and a top bloke really - he told us he cared, so don't say nasty things about him.

Way way off the mark on that one I think Issac.

[Baboo]

I disagree with you GY. My memories over the Kassam era years seem to coincide with DLT's pretty closely.

Me too.

[GodalmingYellow]

Who on earth is Mills?

Oops! Sills obviously.

[GodalmingYellow]

I disagree with you GY. My memories over the Kassam era years seem to coincide with DLT's pretty closely.

The early years had significant investment for the level we were at (wasn't it 150k for Scott and Quinn? Another 100k for Moody?) and large wage packets for duds like Fear and the Bus. McGuckin was a reasonably well regarded player who was signed without taking a physical and turned out to have significant injury issues, if I remember correctly.

Later on as we settled into Division 4 obscurity, the teams wages were always among the top 4 or so in the division (at least it was rumored to be that high). Few/no teams were spending much in the way of transfer fees in Div 4 (Hull being the exception?). Finally, with the wage cap in place, it makes perfect sense that players were unloaded before new ones were brought in so I see nothing wrong with that.

To me, Kassam's failings centered on his abyssmal choice in managers and the wretched way the team was run from a commercial/fan perspective. I think he spent plenty of money on players.

OK fine. McGuckin was never regarded as a decent player. Infact he had the nickname McGutsin because of his, well shall we say over enthusiastic attention to food.

Similarly Bus. He'd not had a particularly good record anywhere and was cheap. He left us to join Welsh part-timers TNS and barely scored a goal there either. And I'm astonished you regard the signing of Wilsterman as an investment.

These were cheap journeyman fodder, not promotion winners.

There was also players like Phil Whelan with the turning circle of a barge. Steve Davis who would genuinely have lost to the tortoise without the sleepover, Lee Jarman for God's sake.

These were some of the worst and cheapest players, remembering we were in What is now the Championship and League 1.

I'm pretty sure these were all freebies. They were not investments by any stretch. They were all that was available for the money. Many of the signings that year were from youth teamers.

For the first few years Kassam refused to plough money in because of the uncertainty.

No doubt we could all pick out an occassional decent signing when we were relegation threatened or when we had already sold a player. But in 8 years, 3 or 4 decent signings couple with numerous freebies and shed loads of sellling took its toll.

Kassam did well in the early years, in stabilising the club and building a new stadium, which gained him significant benefit also, that several before had failed to do, but he ran the club badly and definitely didn't invest in the club.

[AbingdonOx]

Steve Davis was signed in February 1998 by M Shotton after Purse was sold
and was OK in my in my opinion. Pre FK. Kevin Francis joined the same day.

Brian Wilsterman was signed in March 1997 by Denis Smith. Again pre FK.


BW was a garbage player and a panic buy after Elliott left and the Minchery
Farm construction was halted and the club was about to &quotmelt down&quot


Phil Whelan was signed in July 1997 by D Smith. Pre FK.

I never had a problem with the spending budgets for player fees and salaries, it was the way in which the club was run, day to day, in a style more akin to that of running a hotel franchise - Fawlty Towers style.

The club's reputation has been severely damaged in footballing circles
and will take a lot of repairing.

[DLT]

Thanks for correcting me on Wilsterman AbOx. I agree with your points about where it went wrong.

GY, you have a strange intrepretation of the word cheap.

I believe the McGuckin story was that the managerof the time hurried Kassam into signing him without a medical because otherwise he would be snapped up by another club. He was never fit to play. I think the figure quoted was that McGut cost the club over 300k in contract and FK paid it off.

His wages were nowhere near any version of cheap.

Bus was on a 2 year deal at 2k per week. With a signing on fee that brought him a nice shinny BMW. That isn't cheap GY?

Cheap was the likes of Ricketts/King who we released when on peanuts.

[GodalmingYellow]

Thanks for correcting me on Wilsterman AbOx. I agree with your points about where it went wrong.

GY, you have a strange intrepretation of the word cheap.

I believe the McGuckin story was that the managerof the time hurried Kassam into signing him without a medical because otherwise he would be snapped up by another club. He was never fit to play. I think the figure quoted was that McGut cost the club over 300k in contract and FK paid it off.

His wages were nowhere near any version of cheap.

Bus was on a 2 year deal at 2k per week. With a signing on fee that brought him a nice shinny BMW. That isn't cheap GY?

Cheap was the likes of Ricketts/King who we released when on peanuts.

Like I said DLT, we're not going to agree on this, and it has little to do with my interpretation of cheap.

One day, though not today as I've a busy weekend, I'll work out which of us was right on transfers, but as I said above, I'm not talking just about transfers. As you will know only too well, investment means a lot more than just buying petrol for your cars, even if the price of petrol seems high. And it is the investment in quality which brings rewards, not buying the cheapest cars and then claiming to have invested extensively.

[GodalmingYellow]

Steve Davis was signed in February 1998 by M Shotton after Purse was sold
and was OK in my in my opinion. Pre FK. Kevin Francis joined the same day.

Brian Wilsterman was signed in March 1997 by Denis Smith. Again pre FK.


BW was a garbage player and a panic buy after Elliott left and the Minchery
Farm construction was halted and the club was about to &quotmelt down&quot


Phil Whelan was signed in July 1997 by D Smith. Pre FK.

I never had a problem with the spending budgets for player fees and salaries, it was the way in which the club was run, day to day, in a style more akin to that of running a hotel franchise - Fawlty Towers style.

The club's reputation has been severely damaged in footballing circles
and will take a lot of repairing.

Yep you're right on the timing of those players AO. Thanks for that. It just shows how far back our lack of investment goes!!

[Paul Cooper]

I don't think that our decline has anything to do with under investing in players salaries or transfer fees.

There was something wrong in the club and some dreadful errors in the picking of managers that was the problem.

As was said earlier, our salaries were probably always in the top 5-6 in Division 4. Compare this with clubs such as Torquay, Scunthorpe (and probably others that I have forgotten), who did so well on far less resources.

The club was not well run. Maybe there was under investment in other areas, but I certainly don't think that it was the case regardign players.

[Mooro]

Not disagreeing with GY about some of the other sides of investment, but purely on the playing side FK did continue to throw money in (or put back in what he received via sales etc, if you like) to let managers have who they wanted. He, as Chairman, is not responsible for who is signed, that is down to the manager. Infact, most would not like it if he did get involved.

Perhaps this typifies his somewhat simplistic view on how to run a club - appoint a manager, give him the money to get who he wants, run the business as a tight ship - on-field success, happy fans, popularity, bingo!!

What he perhaps never grasped was how to appoint the right manager so the money he gave them was spent wisely &amp also that how you run the business (including the investments GY refers to) has a knock on effect on how the team runs

I'm reasonably certain the new regime understand the latter and are able to at least match the backing FK gave to the player budget.

Just as an aside on the players back then, I think I wrote in a peice I did for one of the programmes of the squad for the last season at the Manor which gives some indication of how FK's money was spent including a wage busting line-up of : Cutler, Robertson, Keith Brown, McGuckin, Linighan, Fear, Rob Quinn, Murphy, omoyimni, Anthrobus &amp Leon Mike -- A team of homegrown players to appear that season would read: Wilson, Ricketts, Powell, King, Ross Weatherstone, WHitehead, Simon Weatherstone, Beauchamp, Hackett, Folland, Cook plus Brooks, Holder &amp Shepheard. I know which I'd prefer...

[DLT]

Thanks for correcting me on Wilsterman AbOx. I agree with your points about where it went wrong.

GY, you have a strange intrepretation of the word cheap.

I believe the McGuckin story was that the managerof the time hurried Kassam into signing him without a medical because otherwise he would be snapped up by another club. He was never fit to play. I think the figure quoted was that McGut cost the club over 300k in contract and FK paid it off.

His wages were nowhere near any version of cheap.

Bus was on a 2 year deal at 2k per week. With a signing on fee that brought him a nice shinny BMW. That isn't cheap GY?

Cheap was the likes of Ricketts/King who we released when on peanuts.

Like I said DLT, we're not going to agree on this, and it has little to do with my interpretation of cheap.

One day, though not today as I've a busy weekend, I'll work out which of us was right on transfers, but as I said above, I'm not talking just about transfers. As you will know only too well, investment means a lot more than just buying petrol for your cars, even if the price of petrol seems high. And it is the investment in quality which brings rewards, not buying the cheapest cars and then claiming to have invested extensively.

Now if I was you GY I would probably assume that your use of petrol and cheap cars to illustrate your arguement was a piece of personal abuse aimed at me. But let me just say to verify your point I own the only Taxi company in Britain that predominantly buys brand new Mercedes for his taxi fleet.

I believe you are using parameters that should be used to judge either quality or value and using them to analyse expenditure.