Scarborough

[Mally]

1. It is reasonable to asume the phrase &quotThere was provision for the
rent to rise or fall depending on the league in which the club played&quot includes relegation from the current league. Otherwise why say it.

2. &quotAlso, that is a statement form OxVox, not a statement from Merry&quot

I am of course assuming that OxVox are reporting acurately - Do you not believe this to be the case?
[/quote]

[GodalmingYellow]

1. It is reasonable to asume the phrase &quotThere was provision for the
rent to rise or fall depending on the league in which the club played&quot includes relegation from the current league. Otherwise why say it.

2. &quotAlso, that is a statement form OxVox, not a statement from Merry&quot

I am of course assuming that OxVox are reporting acurately - Do you not believe this to be the case?

[/quote]

1. I don't agree it is reasonable to presume anything of the sort, particularly if you are accusing someone of being economical with the truth.

2. No, I wasn't party to the conversation. Nor have I seen the lease. Nor do we know what OxVox meant by those words. Exactly the same position as you. But then I'm not throwing wild accusations about the place.

I've given you a hard enough time on this already Mark. So you go ahead and have the last one.

[ty cobb]

'NM and KT confirmed that the club had a secure long-term lease, for 20
years with an option to extend, at an affordable rent which would be
subject only to adjustment for inflation. There was provision for the
rent to rise or fall depending on the league in which the club played.'

From the OxVox site.

My reading of this is that if we go up the rent goes up, if we down the rent goes down. Sounds like this is not the case and Mally is correct to me.

Very worrying indeed to hear about how rich (or not) Merry is.

I await OxVox's minutes from the 25th May with much interest, would also like to know what hard evidence they saw to believe the Woodstock Partners were the correct way forward bar a lot of talk about training pitches scouting and the like.

If they are paying for these facilities then great, if we're borrowing money to enable us to run as a more 'professional' outfit then we better hope we start moving upwards rapidly.

Actually it doesn't say that Ty.

For all you know, the rent change may only apply in the Football League, or only between specific divisions of the Football League, or maybe only between the Football League and the Premiership. The minute does not confirm which of these positions, and needs to be clarified.

Also, that is a statement form OxVox, not a statement from Merry. Mark was accusing Merry of being economical with the truth.

Lets not get pedantic about this. The first part of that quote says NM and KT confirmed, therefore the followingg two paragraghs are clearly points they have made - why would Ox Vox make up such a statement?

And like Mally says there is no point in making such a statement given that we were hanging by a thread to our league status at the time should it not apply for our league. Should it only apply for other leagues then it is a very very misleading statement.

[GodalmingYellow]

'NM and KT confirmed that the club had a secure long-term lease, for 20
years with an option to extend, at an affordable rent which would be
subject only to adjustment for inflation. There was provision for the
rent to rise or fall depending on the league in which the club played.'

From the OxVox site.

My reading of this is that if we go up the rent goes up, if we down the rent goes down. Sounds like this is not the case and Mally is correct to me.

Very worrying indeed to hear about how rich (or not) Merry is.

I await OxVox's minutes from the 25th May with much interest, would also like to know what hard evidence they saw to believe the Woodstock Partners were the correct way forward bar a lot of talk about training pitches scouting and the like.

If they are paying for these facilities then great, if we're borrowing money to enable us to run as a more 'professional' outfit then we better hope we start moving upwards rapidly.

Actually it doesn't say that Ty.

For all you know, the rent change may only apply in the Football League, or only between specific divisions of the Football League, or maybe only between the Football League and the Premiership. The minute does not confirm which of these positions, and needs to be clarified.

Also, that is a statement form OxVox, not a statement from Merry. Mark was accusing Merry of being economical with the truth.

Lets not get pedantic about this. The first part of that quote says NM and KT confirmed, therefore the followingg two paragraghs are clearly points they have made - why would Ox Vox make up such a statement?

And like Mally says there is no point in making such a statement given that we were hanging by a thread to our league status at the time should it not apply for our league. Should it only apply for other leagues then it is a very very misleading statement.

It isn't a case of being pedantic though.

You choose to believe what you think the OxVox report means, and that is fine.

Personally, I don't know what it means and I would prefer clarification before deciding.

And who said anything about OxVox making anything up? I said they might have made a mistake, and suggested clarification is sought to confirm one way or the other.

I don't agree that the statement would be misleading if it only applied to certain leagues or even divisions. If there was a rent change factored in only for change between the championship and League 1 say, the statement reported by Oxvox would still be an accurate representation. It just wouldn't mean what you choose it to mean.

Another alternative may be that Merry might not have been fully aware of the exact lease details when he made that statement, assuming OxVox have correctly reported it (and I have no reason to believe they have not done so). That still wouldn't be Merry being economical with the truth as he has been directly accused of. It would just be a mistake. There are loads of possible legitimate and justifiable reasons for the apparent discrepancy in the 2 statements.

We are discussing here points on which neither you nor I know the correct answer.

Making assumptions to prove a point on the matter is personal preference for you, but not something I would wish to do.

The accusations levelled against Merry on here today have been wholly inappropriate in my view, given the level of detail in the public domain.

If such accusations were shown to have substance, I would be as equally critical as you, but not without evidence, of which there currently seems to be very little.

[Mally]

Keep digging Terry - you only make yourself look more stupid. The economical with the truth comment was nothing to do with the stadium rent.

I believe (as do you) what OxVox said so we are left with Mery making two contradictory statements as would be interpreted by 99% of rational observers.

Regardless of this and whatever the reason behind the two statements we are still left with a stadium rental deal that goes up if the club goes up but doesn't go down if the club goes down. Seeing as we were very likely to go down when the deal was signed it doesn't bode well for the Merry regime's negotiating skills in relation to Kassam.

[GodalmingYellow]

Keep digging Terry - you only make yourself look more stupid. The economical with the truth comment was nothing to do with the stadium rent.

I believe (as do you) what OxVox said so we are left with Mery making two contradictory statements as would be interpreted by 99% of rational observers.

Regardless of this and whatever the reason behind the two statements we are still left with a stadium rental deal that goes up if the club goes up but doesn't go down if the club goes down. Seeing as we were very likely to go down when the deal was signed it doesn't bode well for the Merry regime's negotiating skills in relation to Kassam.

There you go, it didn't take long to make personal comment did it Mark? Always the same.

Queue one of your mates or pseudonyms saying pot kettle or words to that effect.

[ty cobb]

The OxVox statement clearly says NM and KT confirmed the info about the stadium deal.

If you are saying that NM or KT didn't say that, then YOU are implying they made it up.

I don't think they did, I think NM and KT said that and they got it wrong and we are now in a very worrying position.

If we don't get a donation from the Woodstock Partners for the playing budget next season I would argue we are in a worse position now then when Kassam left.

Still I'm sure all this can be cleared up when the new owners hold a forum - something Kassam did on a regular basis.

[Mally]

Queue one of your mates or pseudonyms saying pot kettle or words to that effect.

Paranoia has really set in now. I don't have any pseudonyms other than the one I post on here under - what a ridiculous suggestion and I haven't got a clue who Kernow Yellow or ty cobb are so you could hardly call them mates.

Lets clear this up once and for all. I believe somebody at OxVox knows what Merry meant and believed at the first meeting and how that had changed at the second meeting. COuld you clear it up on here or at the very least email GY with the truth.

[GodalmingYellow]

The OxVox statement clearly says NM and KT confirmed the info about the stadium deal.

If you are saying that NM or KT didn't say that, then YOU are implying they made it up.

I don't think they did, I think NM and KT said that and they got it wrong and we are now in a very worrying position.

If we don't get a donation from the Woodstock Partners for the playing budget next season I would argue we are in a worse position now then when Kassam left.

Still I'm sure all this can be cleared up when the new owners hold a forum - something Kassam did on a regular basis.

Para 1. I'm not implying anything of the sort Ty. You need not to be so black and white and consider that there may be other possibilities, like error for example.

Para 2. You can argue what you like. But you'll have to provide an explanation if you expect us to agree with that sort of wild statement.

Para 3. For someone who claims not to be pro Kassam and anti Merry, you are doing a great job of showing the opposite.

[GodalmingYellow]

Queue one of your mates or pseudonyms saying pot kettle or words to that effect.

Paranoia has really set in now. I don't have any pseudonyms other than the one I post on here under - what a ridiculous suggestion and I haven't got a clue who Kernow Yellow or ty cobb are so you could hardly call them mates.

Lets clear this up once and for all. I believe somebody at OxVox knows what Merry meant and believed at the first meeting and how that had changed at the second meeting. COuld you clear it up on here or at the very least email GY with the truth.

How many more personal insults? First I'm making myself look &quotmore stupid&quot and now I'm paranoid. Could it simply be explained that you posted a ridiculous wild accusation of Merry being economical with the truth and screwing up the rent deal that you couldn't support Mark? And rather than accept it or debate it, you try to turn attention to something else like personal insults.

I don't believe you don't have other pseudonyms, and you are hardly likely to tell us what they are so its a pointless avenue to continue with.

And you really are dreadful. I've been suggesting clarification from OxVox from the start and now you request it under the banner of correcting me? Laughable, you really are. Absolutely the king of spin.

[Matt D]

'NM and KT confirmed that the club had a secure long-term lease, for 20
years with an option to extend, at an affordable rent which would be
subject only to adjustment for inflation. There was provision for the
rent to rise or fall depending on the league in which the club played.'

From the OxVox site.

My reading of this is that if we go up the rent goes up, if we down the rent goes down. Sounds like this is not the case and Mally is correct to me.

that's the way i read it too ty.

but perhaps the point of discussion shouldn't be about inconsistencies in the two notes by oxvox. they could be perfectly consistent if, for example, the &quotprovision&quot is that, in the event of a change of division, rent would be subject to negotiation between the two parties, and that there was no fixed increase or decrease specified in the contract.

in fact, thinking about it, i suspect it would be highly likely, particularly in a hurried negotiation, that no set increase or decrease would be specified.

obviously i'm just speculating, but my point is that the two statements are unclear, and potentially concerning whichever way you look at them - as mally says, a clarification would be helpful.

[DLT]

Am I correct in thinking that the notes OXVOX publish are agreed by the club before they are made public?

There is definitely a 'contradiction' in what was said. A blatant contradiction. I would assume that OXVOX members at the 2nd meeting picked up on this and asked for clarification there and then!

[GodalmingYellow]

Am I correct in thinking that the notes OXVOX publish are agreed by the club before they are made public?

There is definitely a 'contradiction' in what was said. A blatant contradiction. I would assume that OXVOX members at the 2nd meeting picked up on this and asked for clarification there and then!

That's what we are waiting to find out. I suspect they are seeking clarification as we type, but they do have jobs to do and its hardly an urgent issue.

[ty cobb]

The OxVox statement clearly says NM and KT confirmed the info about the stadium deal.

If you are saying that NM or KT didn't say that, then YOU are implying they made it up.

I don't think they did, I think NM and KT said that and they got it wrong and we are now in a very worrying position.

If we don't get a donation from the Woodstock Partners for the playing budget next season I would argue we are in a worse position now then when Kassam left.

Still I'm sure all this can be cleared up when the new owners hold a forum - something Kassam did on a regular basis.

Para 1. I'm not implying anything of the sort Ty. You need not to be so black and white and consider that there may be other possibilities, like error for example.

Para 2. You can argue what you like. But you'll have to provide an explanation if you expect us to agree with that sort of wild statement.

Para 3. For someone who claims not to be pro Kassam and anti Merry, you are doing a great job of showing the opposite.

I think you have been implying that OxVox got it wrong, just my opnion though.

The people who now own our club don't own the stadium. We are playing in the conference next season. Had Kassam stayed then both of these statements were likely to be untrue. Until I have seen evidence that NM is going to invest some money into OUFC then I don't think he will achieve that many better results on the field.

It is too early to judge Merry yet, therefore I am not anti him, though nor am I pro him as you seem to be. Some major questions need to be answered which is why I keep harping on about a fans forum.

[GodalmingYellow]

The OxVox statement clearly says NM and KT confirmed the info about the stadium deal.

If you are saying that NM or KT didn't say that, then YOU are implying they made it up.

I don't think they did, I think NM and KT said that and they got it wrong and we are now in a very worrying position.

If we don't get a donation from the Woodstock Partners for the playing budget next season I would argue we are in a worse position now then when Kassam left.

Still I'm sure all this can be cleared up when the new owners hold a forum - something Kassam did on a regular basis.

Para 1. I'm not implying anything of the sort Ty. You need not to be so black and white and consider that there may be other possibilities, like error for example.

Para 2. You can argue what you like. But you'll have to provide an explanation if you expect us to agree with that sort of wild statement.

Para 3. For someone who claims not to be pro Kassam and anti Merry, you are doing a great job of showing the opposite.

I think you have been implying that OxVox got it wrong, just my opnion though.

The people who now own our club don't own the stadium. We are playing in the conference next season. Had Kassam stayed then both of these statements were likely to be untrue. Until I have seen evidence that NM is going to invest some money into OUFC then I don't think he will achieve that many better results on the field.

It is too early to judge Merry yet, therefore I am not anti him, though nor am I pro him as you seem to be. Some major questions need to be answered which is why I keep harping on about a fans forum.

Where did I imply that OxVox got it wrong Ty?

I can see no evidence to suggest your para 2 can even come close to being true from the words &quotHad Kassam stayed...&quot. You believe it if you want to keep worshipping. There is however lots of evidence to show that your view would have been incorrect. Just my opinion mind.

I am pro Merry until such time as he gives me reason not to be. Same as I was with Kassam. As I've said many times before, I don't care who runs the club, all I care about is how they run it. Kassam did it well for a few years, then did it very badly. Merry has started well, but like you I think it is too early to judge.