OxVox Site

[Mally]

Good to see that OxVox are getting a bit more energetic and have put some new features on their website but why on earth have they allowed somebody to write ill-informed bigotted rubbish on their site:

http&#58//www&#46oxvox&#46org&#46uk/peteg090807&#46htm

The paragraph in question being:

Second, the stadium sale drags on with little or no news as is always the case with these big, protracted deals. There is not anything further to say which has not been said before except is anyone else getting to the stage where you just feel that Ka$$am needs a little bit more 'persuasion' in this matter?! Perhaps a movie-style Mafia Protection racket could be in order……………………Of course, I jest but the sentiment is there. Why does this man persist in torturing us so?

Somebody should tell Pete G that Lenagan told the fans months ago that it isn't Kassam who's stalling, he even offered to part finance the purchase. The reason the stadium hasn't been bought is because the club's owners can't afford it at what they admit is a fair price being asked by Kassam.

[GodalmingYellow]

Good to see that OxVox are getting a bit more energetic and have put some new features on their website but why on earth have they allowed somebody to write ill-informed bigotted rubbish on their site:

http&#58//www&#46oxvox&#46org&#46uk/peteg090807&#46htm

The paragraph in question being:

Second, the stadium sale drags on with little or no news as is always the case with these big, protracted deals. There is not anything further to say which has not been said before except is anyone else getting to the stage where you just feel that Ka$$am needs a little bit more 'persuasion' in this matter?! Perhaps a movie-style Mafia Protection racket could be in order……………………Of course, I jest but the sentiment is there. Why does this man persist in torturing us so?

Somebody should tell Pete G that Lenagan told the fans months ago that it isn't Kassam who's stalling, he even offered to part finance the purchase. The reason the stadium hasn't been bought is because the club's owners can't afford it at what they admit is a fair price being asked by Kassam.

I think bigotted is a little harsh, but certainly ill-informed.

It begs the point to be made that if OxVox had kept supporters well informed, this comment wouldn't appear on their website.

To throw in the flip side for balance, even if Kassam has persuaded WPL that £13m is a fair price, I don't believe it to be fair and certainly not workable as a business proposition.

[ty cobb]

Good to see that OxVox are getting a bit more energetic and have put some new features on their website but why on earth have they allowed somebody to write ill-informed bigotted rubbish on their site:

http&#58//www&#46oxvox&#46org&#46uk/peteg090807&#46htm

The paragraph in question being:

Second, the stadium sale drags on with little or no news as is always the case with these big, protracted deals. There is not anything further to say which has not been said before except is anyone else getting to the stage where you just feel that Ka$$am needs a little bit more 'persuasion' in this matter?! Perhaps a movie-style Mafia Protection racket could be in order……………………Of course, I jest but the sentiment is there. Why does this man persist in torturing us so?

Somebody should tell Pete G that Lenagan told the fans months ago that it isn't Kassam who's stalling, he even offered to part finance the purchase. The reason the stadium hasn't been bought is because the club's owners can't afford it at what they admit is a fair price being asked by Kassam.

I think bigotted is a little harsh, but certainly ill-informed.

It begs the point to be made that if OxVox had kept supporters well informed, this comment wouldn't appear on their website.

To throw in the flip side for balance, even if Kassam has persuaded WPL that £13m is a fair price, I don't believe it to be fair and certainly not workable as a business proposition.

Depends what you feel is fair - if we were looking to move to a new stadium in Oxford then I would expect it to cost somewhat more than £13 million.

[GodalmingYellow]

Good to see that OxVox are getting a bit more energetic and have put some new features on their website but why on earth have they allowed somebody to write ill-informed bigotted rubbish on their site:

http&#58//www&#46oxvox&#46org&#46uk/peteg090807&#46htm

The paragraph in question being:
Somebody should tell Pete G that Lenagan told the fans months ago that it isn't Kassam who's stalling, he even offered to part finance the purchase. The reason the stadium hasn't been bought is because the club's owners can't afford it at what they admit is a fair price being asked by Kassam.

I think bigotted is a little harsh, but certainly ill-informed.

It begs the point to be made that if OxVox had kept supporters well informed, this comment wouldn't appear on their website.

To throw in the flip side for balance, even if Kassam has persuaded WPL that £13m is a fair price, I don't believe it to be fair and certainly not workable as a business proposition.

Depends what you feel is fair - if we were looking to move to a new stadium in Oxford then I would expect it to cost somewhat more than £13 million.

I wouldn't expect it to cost that much for a 3 sided stadium.

Fair takes account of the degree of profit made by Kassam out of his involvement with the club and the related developments.

[Snake]

The agreed Stadium price according to Ian Lenagan at the last Fans Forum is £10m plus £3m for the Conference Centre’s established business.

That works out at £80 a seat. I’m sure that cheaper ‘per seat’ rates can be found (the Stadium of Light springs to mind) but New Wembley works out at £830 a seat.

/

I’m not surprised that OV sanctioned that article, as I think that after 6 years in office they may be starting to get a tad desperate to do something concrete regarding the biggest off-the-field issue OUFC have had for a long time, and it will go down really well with fans who think Firoz Kassam is really Darth Vader in disguise. In fact I look forward to episode II of Star Twat.

Meanwhile, here is a half-decent OUFC internet contributor musing about the new season - http://oxblogger.blogspot.com/

[theox]

I feel you missed the point of that paragraph.

Other than the 'humour' element it was simply meant as a general comment that it seems, in one way or another, we will never be free of Kassam and it would be nice if he could just drop the price so that we can buy the Stadium now!!

It was not a serious comment on the ins and outs of the sale negotiations.

Frankly, I'm just pleased someone read the article! Long may it continue!

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

OxVox wouldn't be the first people to demand that somebody did what was not in their best interest because it would be in the interest of the football club.

[Mally]

I feel you missed the point of that paragraph.

Other than the 'humour' element it was simply meant as a general comment that it seems, in one way or another, we will never be free of Kassam and it would be nice if he could just drop the price so that we can buy the Stadium now!!

It was not a serious comment on the ins and outs of the sale negotiations.

Frankly, I'm just pleased someone read the article! Long may it continue!

OK fair enough probably a bit harsh now that I've re-read it but I have been saying from day 1 when Merry and Co took over that they didn't have the resources to buy the stadium and Kassam would love to sell it but being Kassam he won't sell for a penny less than he thinks its worth/what it cost him.

Banging on about Kassam as the devil incarnate misses the point of how precarious the club's long term position is. Without the stadium there are very limited opportunities to even break even and almost no chance of ever making a profit which means the cycle of debt continues to deepen. Secondly the history of football clubs who don't own their stadiums (or at least have the club and stadium in common ownership) is not good.

I hope I'm wrong but I think Lenagan's plan for partnership funding is a pipe dream and the longer it drags on the greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price. Remember any potential buyer has a sitting tenant paying £450,000 a year, to pay more than half the interest payments.

[neilw]

&quotthe greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price&quot ........................ No chance whatsoever.

[GodalmingYellow]

OK fair enough probably a bit harsh now that I've re-read it but I have been saying from day 1 when Merry and Co took over that they didn't have the resources to buy the stadium and Kassam would love to sell it but being Kassam he won't sell for a penny less than he thinks its worth/what it cost him.

Banging on about Kassam as the devil incarnate misses the point of how precarious the club's long term position is. Without the stadium there are very limited opportunities to even break even and almost no chance of ever making a profit which means the cycle of debt continues to deepen. Secondly the history of football clubs who don't own their stadiums (or at least have the club and stadium in common ownership) is not good.

I hope I'm wrong but I think Lenagan's plan for partnership funding is a pipe dream and the longer it drags on the greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price. Remember any potential buyer has a sitting tenant paying £450,000 a year, to pay more than half the interest payments.

I agree with much of this, and whilst the club cannot afford to buy the stadium company for £13m, in my view the only sensible option to ensure a stable financial future is to ensure that the club runs at break even.

[trevor l]

It's an opinion piece and light hearted at that. But it's in tune with the sentiments of many fans – it conveys the utter frustration of the present situation, in which the club is hobbled by its situation and meanwhile pays a stonking rent to someone who would ‘love to sell it’ but only at his price.

The Lenagan scheme may come off, who knows I hope it does. Imaginative approach to a problem, or pipe dream? Don’t know that either. Certainly an interesting and creative idea, but the probability of it succeeding is hard to say.

Meanwhile doing everything possible to boost revenue and break even is of course sensible, just not too sure about timescales – familiar territory as I’ve debated this with GY previously.

Try the new OxVox forum at http://www.oxvox.org.uk/phpBB2/

[Mally]

&quotthe greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price&quot ........................ No chance whatsoever.

No?

£13 million at 7% = £910,000 a year.

Sitting tenant paying £450,000 a year

Finance cost to a potential rugby club buyer £460,000 a year

Sounds quite attractive to the likes of London Irish or Wasps.

Having the first option to buy is worthless if you can't come up with the money.

[GodalmingYellow]

&quotthe greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price&quot ........................ No chance whatsoever.

No?

£13 million at 7% = £910,000 a year.

Sitting tenant paying £450,000 a year

Finance cost to a potential rugby club buyer £460,000 a year

Sounds quite attractive to the likes of London Irish or Wasps.

Having the first option to buy is worthless if you can't come up with the money.

You wouldn't get 7% on this deal at current rates in my view, both because of the level of base rates and anticipated short to medium term expected rises in base rates, as well as the very high risk factor.

You might get 8%.

£13m @ 8% = £1.04m interest

Current interest = circa £8m @ 6.5% (from memory) = £520k

Additional cost of borrowing is therefore £520k

Plus existing losses varying between £250k and £500k. Again from memory, I recall that Firoka has had to report setting aside of £500k for to cover current year Stadco losses.

So that could reasonably be £1m a year additional income to find just to break even.

So even if you did manage to lure Premier egg chasers at £500k per year rent, and get around the connorbation rules governing Premier egg chasing, that still leaves big losses, a crap football surface and no contribution to the football club.

Sounds great!

[Mally]

&quotthe greater the chance of Kassam finding somebody who can afford his asking price&quot ........................ No chance whatsoever.

No?

£13 million at 7% = £910,000 a year.

Sitting tenant paying £450,000 a year

Finance cost to a potential rugby club buyer £460,000 a year

Sounds quite attractive to the likes of London Irish or Wasps.

Having the first option to buy is worthless if you can't come up with the money.

You wouldn't get 7% on this deal at current rates in my view, both because of the level of base rates and anticipated short to medium term expected rises in base rates, as well as the very high risk factor.

You might get 8%.

£13m @ 8% = £1.04m interest

Current interest = circa £8m @ 6.5% (from memory) = £520k

Additional cost of borrowing is therefore £520k

Plus existing losses varying between £250k and £500k. Again from memory, I recall that Firoka has had to report setting aside of £500k for to cover current year Stadco losses.

So that could reasonably be £1m a year additional income to find just to break even.

So even if you did manage to lure Premier egg chasers at £500k per year rent, and get around the connorbation rules governing Premier egg chasing, that still leaves big losses, a crap football surface and no contribution to the football club.

Sounds great!

Firstly I nthink you've misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that you get a rugby club in as a tenant what I was saying that a rugby club could BUY the stadium at effectively half the price that it would cost OUFC because they already have OUFC as a tenant and they don't care about what we do to the pitch.

As for the losses you quote for the stad co (from the '05 accounts as I haven't got the '06 at hand) these are losses AFTER interest payments. You can't include the interest payments twice.

Your last sentence is exactly what worries me - If Kassam gets fed up with waiting around for Lenagan to piss or get off the pot and finds a rugby club to buy the stadium then as you say:

&quotthat still leaves big losses, a crap football surface and no contribution to the football club&quot

but this way it's forever!

[Snake]

“It's an opinion piece and light hearted at that. But it's in tune with the sentiments of many fans – it conveys the utter frustration of the present situation, in which the club is hobbled by its situation and meanwhile pays a stonking rent to someone who would ‘love to sell it’ but only at his price.